The difference between those two scenarios is immense, the challenges widely different and it's not just a coin toss situation of making the best of it. It is such a massive thing to take on. In things far less important in life (exam, sports event etc), lying your way through it or breaking the rules would get you disqualified. Given that incompetence we've seen over the last 18 months, I can't see a reason for this to stand. Had the circumstances of Brexit reflected what was campaigned for in any way, that would be very different. But it doesn't and that has become very clear over time. The obvious warning sign was when all the campaigners ran for the hills but it has got more and more ridiculous. It really is now just what Nu-Eclipse keeps posting: "will of the people" a sentence with no thought and no reason and probably not even all that true any more given the disparity between what was campaigned for and what is happening.
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I suppose in the end overturning the referendum based on lies and rule breaking corruption would be hard stance for MP's to take because it'd be like standing on a soap box and taking the flack against something that on a day to day basis is their bread and butter. The way Brexit has unfolded is less 'what does the country get out of it' now and more what do the individual politicians get from it. It's clear some are more interested in power grabs than its outcome, let alone later uncoverings of who has fingers in what pies etc. Who knows when any of that might shake out though, Labour don't seem to be any closer to powerComment
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Yep. And that only confirms it further for me. It's a farce.Comment
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Which is why it still puzzles me as to why Remain has so little a voice at this point, Labour doesn't attempt to remotely leverage the situation in their favour when it should be easy to do so (if they weren't already so busy being dragged down by the anti-Semitism furore). Both parties are pretty much outright committed to it but in very vague ways. You'd expect one to be hard Brexit and one soft but neither commits to any sort of a vision - not just for a deal, but post 29 March, a time where there's still no word on what exactly they plan to do with the EU severed.
Whilst a Second Referendum debate will no doubt rear in the coming years, hoping to build momentum to happening like the first one accomplished, Labour's making it hard to lead on that with their current stance of indifference at best. If they chose a very soft position and it was unpopular/popular at least the Tories would have a clear public opinion indicator. A No Deal scenario isn't necessarily a bad one if it's planned for appropriately, at this rate it's the one we're headed to with no plan just because everyone seems to be shrugging their shoulders and looking to someone else to take a firm positionComment
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I think you're right and I think it's precisely because they've bought into the same thing you're selling - that it has to be done. A true opposition here would be pushing to reverse it, not to change the type of Brexit because there is no good Brexit. There is no Brexit plan that becomes a strong alternative. That's why they look weak.Comment
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That the Lib Dems have been the only outspoken Remain party and have still failed to gain any form of recovery as a result doesn't help, it'll mostly be tied to the damage they suffered from the coalition but it fuels the image to the other parties that no grand public shift exists.Comment
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I think that's about to come to a head, though.Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
I strongly suspect we're going to see Labour split into two parties; a centrist party and "Momentum" as a party, which will change the political landscape, especially if Boris gets voted in.Comment
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Have they not sorted this crap out yet? I’ll check back in on their progress next decade then.Comment
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I actually agree with you over Referendums. They are a waste of time, only ever held when the .Gov of the Day thinks they can win, in the end they solve nothing has one can see with both the Scotish and EU Refs. I'm with you and the likes of Peter Hitchens on how Refs are a waste of time, not actually legally binding... So it makes holding them a little pointless.Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post
My point to you was how UK still carries out in the full, the resukt of the any Ref held by the .Gov of the day heled in the country. We stayed in the EU for over 40 years after the 1973 Ref, Wales got its Welsh Assembly in 1997 and the Scotish still haven't got their 'freedom' just yet after the 2014 Ref, but the Scots did get their Parliament, with the 1997 Ref
I'm sick to death of Brexit and will leave others to argue over that. but if you want to talk 'Referendums'. When was the last time the UK didn't honour the outcome of any Referendum held in the country? I can't think of one in the last 100 years tbh.Last edited by Team Andromeda; 04-09-2018, 14:00.Comment
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What's the point in having that debate, if the response is already "we will be leaving, snip..."? Will be a short debate
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The government respects the will of the people... On this occasion. I mean normally we don't but this time we do because of reasons.Comment
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It's not the will of the people though. The will of the pepple is to stop dem foreigners taking our jaaaawbs.Comment
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Chequers continues to get battered. Honestly, I still feel it's a plan May has designed to fail - she sticks by it as MPs at home and the EU both reject it pretty much cementing its failure - it feels like it's design is more so she can stci her hands up when No Deal happens and say 'don't blame me, I tried'Comment
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There's another article linked at the bottom
"The Five Options of Brext" which it explains and lays out the likelihood, none of which turn out likely to be accepted: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...200-days-to-go
Still, unicorns and rainbows for everyone.Comment
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