Europe III: April F-EU-Ls

[fishbowlhead]

My theory on why Brexit is being handled badly is its the first time in decades we have asked Politicians to actually do something.

Normally you would vote in a party and they nudge the abacus a bit and shake a few hands and that's it.
Now they actually have to DO something!

Do politicians even know how to do ANYTHING? genuine question as UK politicians have made an entire system that's about NOT doing anything.

[Dogg Thang]

The whole exiting the EU design is stupid - It's ridiculous that any country can leave the EU and yet none of them or the EU as a whole ever bothered to properly plan for it to minimise the economical impact. The EU should be planning for any of the EU27 to leave at any time as some of them would be crippling if they left.

I guess they were hoping nobody would. And really, it's easy to see why it is the problem of the individual nation. It's not the EU's job to make your Brexit easier - I've said it before but this is all on the UK and the responsibility doesn't lie elsewhere. However you do have a point about the repercussions to the EU and the planning of that. Brexit will have a major effect on the EU as a whole and on the individual nations and it's not good. Maybe you don't get to see it there but we have been having conferences and information given to us for the last two years on preparing for Brexit and the possible implications and a good chunk of that is driven by the EU. So there has been planning. We get it because we're staying, I presume.

Most of us in the EU are in for the long haul. Even if there were early ideas in place on how to break it, there is no way you can spend decades building a union, working through trade deals, standards and everything else it has done over that time and expect an easy exit after all that. The only way that could happen is if you had also negotiated individual deals all through those years in the event of a split. This was only ever going to be difficult. It was never going to be easy and there is no clear, right path to do it regardless of your politicians.

So yeah, the whole exiting the EU design is stupid but only if you leave. We weren't in a trial period so this was going to be how it works. The only alternative is that you don't get to leave and they obviously weren't going to do that.

[Neon Ignition]

I suppose the Tories approach to advising the public on how to approach preparing for Brexit would be like those old war time public service announcements that advised people to climb behind their sofa in the event of a nuclear blast

[Dogg Thang]

Are there not industry bodies doing this on a smaller level though? Advising each industry based on what they know?

[Brad]

Yeah, the whole thing is a bit fragile and relies on no one leaving. Britain leaving is actually one of the easier countries to deal with. If Spain left then goods going to and from Portugal would have to face hard borders twice in each direction.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep. But it's kind of the same with any union. If a band member leaves, they might replace that person, go on without them or they might disband. But Take That probably weren't walking around with an exit plan in their pocket before Robbie left. If it works for people, great. You aim for that and carry on. It probably wouldn't have said much about the state of the EU if they had spent the first decade working out how people would leave it. Leaving it is not the aim.

[Neon Ignition]

There's the Mail's next front page, the EU are the Borg

[Asura]

There's the Mail's next front page, the EU are the Borg

To be fair, that's what the anti-EU people were all about in the 90s. They were honestly complaining that British people were eating brie and croissants, like this was an example of how we were being assimilated and losing our Britishness.

We got a VHS tape through the post once about it; it was from the BNP, one of their party political ads. It wasn't labeled, so we had to watch a few minutes to know what it was. Had to go in the bin; the tape was only 20 minutes long so it was no use to anyone.

[Dogg Thang]

I guess given your history of colonisation and what Britain did to other countries, I can kind of see where that fear might come from. But that was never the aim and hasn’t remotely happened in the decades we’ve had this union. We have seen globalisation on the high streets but that’s driven by capitalism and isn’t a product of the EU - and I’ll guess the flow of shops has not been predominantly from continental Europe to the UK. If anything, some EU nations are very protective of their individual cultures. So as seems to be the norm, it’s nonsense really.

[Asura]

I guess given your history of colonisation and what Britain did to other countries, I can kind of see where that fear might come from. But that was never the aim and hasn’t remotely happened in the decades we’ve had this union. We have seen globalisation on the high streets but that’s driven by capitalism and isn’t a product of the EU - and I’ll guess the flow of shops has not been predominantly from continental Europe to the UK. If anything, some EU nations are very protective of their individual cultures. So as seems to be the norm, it’s nonsense really.

Of course it was nonsense - but those people really believed it, baffling though that is.

[Dogg Thang]

I know I've said it before but I honestly think a huge factor is your tabloids. Even the people who wouldn't buy them in a million years get hit with their headlines day in day out for their entire lives. There is no way that kind of messaging can't have an effect. It's conditioning. A lot of people can look past it and read beyond it and get better informed but, for many, it just soaks in slowly and becomes part of their world view. So if you're 60 and you've had six decades of this rhetoric thrown at you and someone says those lousy Europeans are out to destroy your culture, it's easy to see why you might believe it.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/25/german-parties-prepare-for-second-electoral-shock-in-hesse

In two weeks there will be regional electoral polls in Germany and it's now being expected that Angela Merkel is going to get battered more than a seaside fish. Should the expected hit land, it's not expected that she will lose her role as head of the party but it may lead to her coalition government crumbling apart and the country heading back to a national election.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/24/may-sets-november-date-to-trigger-no-deal-brexit-preparations

Meanwhile, at home, May has set a second week of November date for the UK government to flick the switch and to start proactive preparations for a No Deal Brexit.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I have no doubt that the instant Brexit stumbles across the finishing line May will be ousted.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/29/justine-greening-hints-at-conservative-leadership-bid-theresa-may

Justine Greening restarts the rumour mill against May by hinting at herself as a contender

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/29/angela-merkel-wont-seek-re-election-as-cdu-party-leader

Speaking of outgoing leaders, Merkel did indeed suffer that battering and as a result has stated she won't be rerunning for the position of CDU Leader

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/29/budget-2018-government-insists-no-deal-brexit-wont-stop-nhs-getting-20bn-despite-hammonds-warnings-politics-live

The Tories have also cemented that if No Deal does occur, the extra funds for the NHS will not be put at risk

[QualityChimp]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/29/budget-2018-government-insists-no-deal-brexit-wont-stop-nhs-getting-20bn-despite-hammonds-warnings-politics-live

The Tories have also cemented that if No Deal does occur, the extra funds for the NHS will not be put at risk

Fine words from a man who is a beneficiary of a trust that owns a controlling interest in health care and nursing home developer, Castlemead Ltd.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154