Europe III: April F-EU-Ls

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/tory-mps-defect-independent-group-soubry-allen-wollaston

Turns out Labour MP's and Tory MP's can work together, just not in those parties. Three Tory MP's have just quit to join the independent group. It's still early but it's interest how much of a female leaning this is taking in terms of numbers given how male dominated politics remains which may end up exposing more of the extent of disconnect they feel from their parties compared to men.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/shamima-begum-a-bit-shocked-that-uk-has-revoked-citizenship

The UK government is making moves to strip Shamima Begum of her UK citizenship.

[Dogg Thang]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ed-citizenship

The UK government is making moves to strip Shamima Begum of her UK citizenship.

There seems to be a lot of outrage about this. And yet I can't bring my left-leaning compassionate heart to have any sympathy for her. The precedent of stripping her of citizenship could certainly be a worry and I'd probably be in favour of letting her come back home and throwing her into the court system the moment she reaches the airport. So yeah, maybe the ability just to strip someone of citizenship is a problem but I'm having a hard time finding a reason to feel for this particular person.

[prinnysquad]

So these MPs are going to call by-elections, right? Since nobody voted for their embryonic party. Like Carswell did when he defected to UKIP. This would prove their people-orientated integrity, I’m sure.

[Neon Ignition]

I struggle to really get her position on things either other than she's blatantly brainwashed and has no idea that she is. You subscribe to the beliefs and actions of ISIS and then a couple of years later feel it'd be more convenient to go home even though you claim you still hold those opinions. Yet returning or having the desire to is effectively the ISIS equivalent of sleeping with the enemy so you either want to return because you have harmful intent or you want to return because deep down you don't actually truly believe in their ideals and are trying to bolt before someone puts a bullet in your skull. Either way she'd have just massively exposed herself to danger where she is and where she wants to go.

[Neon Ignition]

One thing the radio just brought up that I missed, if the Tories lose just 5 more MP's to this independence group they will lose their coalition majority in parliament

[MartyG]

There seems to be a lot of outrage about this. And yet I can't bring my left-leaning compassionate heart to have any sympathy for her. The precedent of stripping her of citizenship could certainly be a worry and I'd probably be in favour of letting her come back home and throwing her into the court system the moment she reaches the airport. So yeah, maybe the ability just to strip someone of citizenship is a problem but I'm having a hard time finding a reason to feel for this particular person.

She definitely hasn't helped herself from the quotes in the papers but are we really getting the full picture here? AFAIK she hasn't actually done anything illegal she can be charged with, so as well as bypassing due process, it's actually being bypassed without a crime to go with it. Looking at the bigger picture, I'm not sure I like the precedence this sets.

As you say, it is difficult to have sympathy given the story, but it seems that she's being used as the poster child of we will destroy the evil ISIS.

[Neon Ignition]

Given that she has proven connections and history directly tying her to terrorism, if they did allow her back wouldn't they have immediate grounds to detain her and permanently remove the baby from her custody for placing into adoption (given her family connections clearly don't disconnect that concern either)?

[Lebowski]

Another way to look at it is a 13 year old (a child) was groomed by an extremist movement over a number of years which resulted in her flying from the UK to be married off underage to a pedophile. I wonder if she got somewhere safer she would completely change her stance, is she in a safe position to completely denounce ISIS where she is?

Considering the other 2 girls she fled with have both been killed one trying to escape you could say shes not exactly in a safe position at present, if she did get killed trying to get back i think the default position from the media would be good riddance to bad rubbish, and serves her right.

[fishbowlhead]

Another way to look at it is a 15 year old (a child) has been groomed by an extremist movement over a number of years which resulted in her flying from the UK to be married off underage to a pedophile. I wonder if she got somewhere safer she would completely change her stance, is she in a safe position to completely denounce ISIS where she is?

Considering the other 2 girls she fled with have both been killed one trying to escape you could say shes not exactly in a safe position at present, if she did get killed trying to get back i think the default position from the media would be good riddance to bad rubbish, and serves her right.

Lack of parental online control and monitoring right there.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I think someone just needs to fly over there, take her to a safer place and have a long and deep conversation with her before making a judgement on her future.
It's a very difficult situation because you don't want to be seen as weak or simply letting sympathiser in.

[Brad]

I think someone just needs to fly over there, take her to a safer place and have a long and deep conversation with her before making a judgement on her future.
It's a very difficult situation because you don't want to be seen as weak or simply letting sympathiser in.

May has probably built up enough frequent flyer miles to do this.

[fishbowlhead]

May has probably built up enough frequent flyer miles to do this.

Just 3 more NO!’s from Brussels for that free flight to Australia.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/conservatives-and-labour-braced-for-further-walkouts

Dominic Grieve has said he will also leave the Conservatives if No Deal comes about

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/21/uk-and-ireland-retailers-warn-of-40-tariffs-on-food-in-no-deal-brexit

Retailers have warned of 40% tariffs on food if No Deal occurs

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/no-breakthrough-for-may-after-constructive-brexit-talks-in-brussels

And May may have boosted her air miles visiting Brussels but as is always the case - that's all she achieved

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/starmer-pm-is-running-down-clock-so-mps-only-get-binary-choice

Not a shock but I'd expect a definite crop of Tory leavers in the coming week and a formal move against her Brexit position next week. She's clearly very happy to hold the country to ransom.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/feb/21/brexit-hammond-warns-of-no-deal-damage-as-more-tories-consider-exit-politics-live

Having met with Barnier, Corbyn says the UK's ability to extend Article 50 is a complex question to answer...

In other words he was told we'd need to offer a second referendum as a condition no doubt