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    Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post

    Allegedly, the SoC hardware used for the MD Mini is quite underpowered in comparison to what Nintendo used for their Minis,
    So they're not even using Raspberry Pi 2/3 sort of tech? I remember Kega Fusion ran perfectly on really old Intel chips, so you'd think that even a cheap modern chip would have the horsepower to run something similar to Fusion.

    Unless Sega gave M2 really crap tech to work with, they really should have got the emulation to feel solid/accurate. It's not like MD emulation hasn't been reasonably authentic for ages. SNES emulation has always been more demanding.

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      Rerez had a review as well, but they pulled it. They complained about lag, audio issues, and a few titles showing pixel shimmering as well. Some titles, like Space Harrier, ran worse than others according to them.

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        Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post

        Unless Sega gave M2 really crap tech to work with, they really should have got the emulation to feel solid/accurate..
        M2 aren’t a large dev team with infinite resources though.

        If the behind-the-scenes speculation is true then Sega should’ve properly liaised with M2 and made them precisely aware of what the hardware spec would be.
        Last edited by Nu-Eclipse; 16-09-2019, 07:02.

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          Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
          So they're not even using Raspberry Pi 2/3 sort of tech?
          They are. It's an ARM-based System on a chip. However DF noted not as much is as known about the Z7213 chip they have used but is probably comparable to the SOC Nintendo used in their mini NES/SNES.
          Last edited by Digfox; 16-09-2019, 08:15.

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            Originally posted by briareos_kerensky View Post
            Some titles, like Space Harrier, ran worse than others according to them.
            Space Harrier II has a dodgy frame and feels quite clunky to play on a genuine MD, so maybe the reviewer doesn't know that. It would be sad if it's running even worse.



            Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post
            M2 aren’t a large dev team with infinite resources though.
            If Kega Fusion has been delivering solid Mega Drive emulation for ages using really old Intel and AMD chips, then I don't think getting an MD emulator running well on a modern ARM-based system should require "infinite resources" and be challenging.

            It seems very strange, if not baffling why such an esteemed dev such as M2 has delivered an emulation experience that has glaring issues. It might be because they are doing everything very high level, or the hardware Sega has given them is junk.

            It all comes down to Mega Drive emulation not being demanding. Kega Fusion managed to deliver authentic MD emulation last decade. It's a world away from expecting a cheap ARM system to emulate old 3D focused consoles really well.

            I was playing Mega Drive games on my Pi 3B earlier today and the emulation for video and audio feels solid. The scanline option also works really well if you select the right type of scanlines. I've also used a SNES Mini for Mega Drive Emulation without noticing any obvious issues.

            It really is a shame that people have reported a list off issues, because we all thought Sega would get things totally right this time. Whether it's Sega or M2 at fault, who knows?
            Last edited by Leon Retro; 16-09-2019, 10:43.

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              Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
              If Kega Fusion has been delivering solid Mega Drive emulation for ages using really old Intel and AMD chips, then I don't think getting an MD emulator running well on a modern ARM-based system should require "infinite resources" and be challenging.
              What went before with emulation way back when is literally irrelevant in the context of right now when the tech in that timeframe changes in so many ways that you, I and others who don’t have the innate knowledge can’t begin to comprehend. If you’ve not got experience of successfully coding and developing this kind of emulation then I’m not sure how you’re in any position to say that M2 shouldn’t be finding it a challenge.

              Should infinite resources be needed? Maybe I’m wrong and they don’t but resources definitely do matter - M2 have approx. 50 staff and they likely take on multiple projects at any given time so it’s not like they would’ve had everybody working on this. They’re not a large company by any stretch. If It’s true that Sega didn’t properly liaise with M2 and allow them to have input into the MD Mini tech then it’s a miracle that M2 would’ve been able to produce anything of a suitable quality as they would’ve had one hand behind their back to begin with.

              It’s also worth remembering that it’s been proven that Nintendo’s Mini consoles aren’t perfect either - they don’t deliver 1:1 perfect looking and sounding emulation by any stretch, and this is NCL replicating their own hardware and software in-house..

              Basically, nobody outside of it truly knows for sure. But I digress. Again, none of this is likely to bother the majority who purchase this.

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                Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post
                I and others who don’t have the innate knowledge can’t begin to comprehend. If you’ve not got experience of successfully coding and developing this kind of emulation then I’m not sure how you’re in any position to say that M2 shouldn’t be finding it a challenge.
                But we are aware of how Mega Drive emulation has been reasonably authentic for a long time now. So it's not like we don't have clear knowledge that the Kega Fusion emulator delivered satisfying Mega Drive emulation on relatively ancient hardware. We also know that a Raspberry Pi and SNES Mini can run Mega Drive games without any obvious issues.

                It's not like M2 are living in a bubble with no awareness of emulators. You'd think their tech people would be fully aware that Mega Drive emulation isn't demanding.

                It's why I said that either M2 aren't coding things properly, or Sega gave them really incapable hardware. Whatever the case -- I really think Mega Drive emulation shouldn't have any glaring issues on any modern tech. Something is to blame for the issues raised by people reviewing the MD Mini, but maybe we won't get any clear explanations.

                It's just sad, seeing people were excited about Sega's positive attitude and M2's strong reputation. The product shouldn't have any obvious issues that spoil the overall package.

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                  It’s definitely sad on M2’s part as you’d expect an above par product with their name attached. It’s also worth remembering that their Castlevania and Contra collections had the same graphics filters as the MD Mini seems to have on much more powerful hardware. I could possibly understand the shortfalls with the MD audio but there should be no excuse with the graphics filters, especially as they have perfect results elsewhere.

                  I’m a little more wary of their involvement in the PCE Mini now, I hope they can pull off some of their past magic.

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                    Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                    .

                    It seems very strange, if not baffling why such an esteemed dev such as M2 has delivered an emulation experience that has glaring issues. It might be because they are doing everything very high level
                    Aren't you going a little OTT. Its a novelty item and where I very much doubt most people who buy this are going to count frames and slow their games down by over 500%, so they can notice a tiny amount of sound lag.

                    I don't get why it was never an issue for the NES or SNES Mini but now it is. If you're really care 'that' enough about lag and want to true 100% experience, you wouldn't go near a LCD TV, much less buy a mini. You'll be gaming on the original hardware on a CRT. These mini consoles are not for those sort of people. They're a novelty little item when fans of the systems can relive a lot of their youth on a gaming system that works on their Modern TV and simple to set up

                    Like the Snes Mini, this seems a great product and hope more will follow.

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                      I have a suspicion this will all turn out to be just fine except for the die-hards comparing games with the original hardware frame for frame. At least I hope so. This tends to happen. One person who really knows their stuff can point out the differences and then everyone else integrates them into their own impressions. Sometimes it's hilariously blatant - you'll see it if Nintendo Life post an article about a Digital Foundry review before they get their own review up. The review that follows will be full of talk of the stuff that only Digital Foundry comparing other systems directly would have ever spotted.

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                        Seeing as people complained saying lag/audio lag was unbearable on nes mini I’m taking it with a pinch of salt as a lot of it was down to peoples crap TVs adding in a lot of lag. I have played a hell of a lot of rock man, gimmick & super Mario and all those games require strict timing to make jumps and the minor delay added nothing they all were still controllable as ever my plasma is really old and the picture is failing but it does have pretty fast response times. All these people testing the md would be interesting to see what TVs they were running tests on. Wether it’s some super hot low latency screen or some cheap janky lcd.

                        Either way I’m still hyped for it, not long now till release yay.
                        Last edited by importaku; 17-09-2019, 07:24.

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                          Originally posted by importaku View Post
                          Seeing as people complained saying lag/audio lag was unbearable on nes mini I’m taking it with a pinch of salt as a lot of it was down to peoples crap TVs adding in a lot of lag. I have played a hell of a lot of rock man, gimmick & super Mario and all those games require strict timing to make jumps and the minor delay added nothing they all were still controllable as ever my plasma is really old and the picture is failing but it does have pretty fast response times. All these people testing the md would be interesting to see what TVs they were running tests on. Wether it’s some super hot low latency screen or some cheap janky lcd.
                          The issues with the NES Classic Mini were widely reported across the board by a wide variety of different users, casual and hardcore NES enthusiast alike.

                          It’s quite a stretch to suggest that every complainant was using a rubbish television, surely?

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                            I go on my own findings, and the sheer volume of games i have put through this thing or the crazy amount of hours i have spent playing it i have yet to see this unplayable lag at all. If there was any lag, games like mr gimmick would be unplayable as the amount of precision you need when jumping is strict and yet it plays fine. Then again they are the same people who declared the famicom minis joypad too small to use yet another overblown internet drama.

                            In about a week or so's time i'll have my japanese unit here and i can see just how overblown the md mini issues are.

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                              Originally posted by importaku View Post
                              I go on my own findings, and the sheer volume of games i have put through this thing or the crazy amount of hours i have spent playing it i have yet to see this unplayable lag at all. If there was any lag, games like mr gimmick would be unplayable as the amount of precision you need when jumping is strict and yet it plays fine. Then again they are the same people who declared the famicom minis joypad too small to use yet another overblown internet drama.
                              Perhaps, but enough people were talking about Punch-Out!! having significant lag and that is a game that require some considerable precision of input. I don’t know if other games were specifically singled out but DIgital Foundry did do a longform article and video about the quality of the Classic Minis emulation (cba to pull it up) which showed them to have flaws.

                              Meh, whatever. As I have said constantly, it’s clear that none of these microconsoles are/will be perfect emulation-wise but the majority who cop them won’t notice or even care and that’s fair enough.

                              Also, I personally think that the PCE Mini next year will be the end of these microconsoles appearing. I don’t see Sony going again after the disaster of the PS Classic, Nintendo seemingly have no enthusiasm to make an N64 Classic Mini and is the SoC tech even there to make mini versions of things like the GC or DC or Saturn (genuine question as I don’t know the ins and outs of GC/Saturn/DC emulation)?

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                                After pce the only one i want to see is sega do a MKIII then im good i have no desire for any other console in mini form.

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