Course claims you can learn web development in 5 months

[kryss]

We have a coding sub-forum with chat and some resources here.
We've even joked about making a forum game a few years back, but the ones who have the technical prowess are contractually bound to only code for their employers.

I've been trying to start this course for weeks now, having set up my computer ready but just haven't found the time.

[gunrock]

[MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION]: kryss wasn't attacking you. You have been demonstrating an incredible lack of interest in the subject whilst professing that it is something you want to do. You don't need Brad to tell you what an Open Source Project is, if you were interested you'd have googled it and found out. The reason you probably haven't learnt how to program is because it's not that interesting to you - which is okay but you need to face up to it.

[Protocol Penguin]

@Protocol Penguin: kryss wasn't attacking you. You have been demonstrating an incredible lack of interest in the subject whilst professing that it is something you want to do. You don't need Brad to tell you what an Open Source Project is, if you were interested you'd have googled it and found out. The reason you probably haven't learnt how to program is because it's not that interesting to you - which is okay but you need to face up to it.

No, it's because I wasn't able to take a qualification course with taught instructions earlier on in life, and I probably don't have very many (or any) opportunities to do so now. I'd probably be an actually good programmer if given the opportunity and resources to learn from the basics.

[ZipZap]

I just don't understand it. The books I've looked at obviously assume prior experience. I probably need taught instruction as a start, because the books I've looked at might as well be in another (actual) language.

Yeah, you need to look at resources that teach programming for absolute beginners. Like I say, don't worry to much about the language initially, they all use the same key concepts. Once you understand these concepts, switching to a particular language isn't too difficult (obviously becoming an expert still takes a lot of work).

You're nowhere near the stage of joining an open source project. That will require a certain amount of coding knowledge first.

[gunrock]

[MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION]: you might be right but I would suggest that if it was burning you up you would have got on Google and typed "learning programming" or maybe looked at a coding for kids website. Basically, got stuck in.
If I wanted to learn how to play guitar (with no musical background) at the age of the 40, I'd get a cheapish guitar and a book or watch some youtube vids, search out beginner guitar webites etc. and generally, get stuck in.
I feel you are sitting around on the sidelines, wondweing what to ro and you just want to be good at it right now and you seem a bit resentful about that. However, you need to do something to help yourself.
I taught myself programming back in the early 80s when there were very few resources available and then I went to college to get better at it. Then I started work and after 13 years professional programming, started a self funded part-time OU degree at the age of 31 to get a qualification and to see if there were any gaps in my knowledge that were limiting my understanding of more difficult concepts.
I mean by the time it too me to write this reply, you could have downloaded Scratch and started learning. Then when Scratch is too limiting, switch to Python or something similar. Then when that seems au fait, try Scala or Java or C# or any other myriad languages that exist.
Start. Get going. There are thousands of websites, blogs and youtube channels that are all free that can help you with this.

[Protocol Penguin]

Well, I don’t have the luxury of doing an expensive course with the OU, there’s no funding as I already have a degree...

Not sure about the comparison with guitars, not sure what you’re saying there, fairly straightforward to learn the basic, usual stuff on that...

The language issue. Discovered only recently that computer languages are all different, thought they were different brand names for the same thing. I have no idea which to choose within the structure of a course, lots of contradictory info. Some say Python, many say it’s bad. IOS apps need something different and specific. Websites have all kinds of languages based inside them. It’s a mess of a field to look at from the outside. I’m not keen on the idea of learning something and finding out it’s a useless computer language, or can’t do what I need it to. So I have to weigh up all the options first.

[replicashooter]

Maybe you should kick that idea to the kerb penguin and focus on something else. It doesn’t sound like it’s your kind of game based one what you’ve said in this thread.

[ZipZap]

Like I've said, don't worry too much about languages initially, they all work roughly the same way (especially at a more simple level). First of all, you need to learn how code works and how to think like a programmer.

I learnt C64 BASIC in the late-80s/early-90s. When I left school and started college in 1994, it was pretty much obsolete, but it was in no way a waste of time as it was a massive help with my c/c++ lessons because I already understood variables, loops, conditions etc. and knew how to think through a problem using them. In fact, it was probably better to learn BASIC first, as starting from scratch in something like C++ would've been more difficult.

It's unlikely you'll learn one language and specialise in that forever, technology moves too quickly.

Get to grips with the basics of one or two languages and you'll start to see the differences and similarities between them. Then you might be in a better position to know what the next step should be and you'll have the prior knowledge the books you've been reading require.

You won't do this overnight and you won't find a book that will set you up for life. Even a degree course only gives you an introduction. Just take it a step at a time.

[Protocol Penguin]

OK, I’ve looked at some Python stuff. That’s meant to be the beginners’ language.

Is this a bad guide, or aimed at people who are already computer science graduates? Because this makes literally no sense:

https://www.learnpython.org/en/Variables_and_Types

[ZipZap]

It appears to assume you have prior programming knowledge, and that's my point about how learning a language and learning to program are two different things. There's no point in someone telling you how variables work in Python when you haven't yet learnt what a variable is.

This seems more beginner friendly.

http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english3e/way_of_the_program.html

[gunrock]

Not sure about the comparison with guitars, not sure what you’re saying there, fairly straightforward to learn the basic, usual stuff on that...

My point was: it's the same with programming. The basics, such as variables, branching (if-then-else etc. ) and loops are the fundamentals and not too difficult to pick up. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, all languages have those things in common, though the syntax changes - to carry on the music analogy, a chord on the guitar is conceptually the same as the piano, except the placement of your fingers on the guitar fretboard will be different to the piano keys. A variable declaration in Python will be be writteb in different language syntax (the words you write in the text editor) from Java, but the concept is the pretty much the same.

[MartyG]

It appears to assume you have prior programming knowledge, and that's my point about how learning a language and learning to program are two different things. There's no point in someone telling you how variables work in Python when you haven't yet learnt what a variable is.

This seems more beginner friendly.

http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/p...e_program.html

Agreed totally. This seems to cover the basic concepts too: https://www.tutorialspoint.com/compu...ing_basics.htm

You need to understand the fundamentals because just learning syntax won't help you determine when you need to use an int or a double, or when to use an if or a switch statement, or whether to mark a class static or instantiable, whether to use an interface or generics; without understanding the principals behind why languages are structured the way they are, it will be a massive struggle to code anything that's useful.

As others and myself have posted in this thread - language is just a means to an end - I learnt to program on a ZX Spectrum and Apple II, mostly just by trial and error but the point here was I learnt it because I was interested in doing so, I made the effort to sit and the keyboard and try things. You can't learn programming just by reading a book or watching a video, you have to sit at a keyboard type things in and work at it too.

[Protocol Penguin]

It appears to assume you have prior programming knowledge, and that's my point about how learning a language and learning to program are two different things. There's no point in someone telling you how variables work in Python when you haven't yet learnt what a variable is.

This seems more beginner friendly.

http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/p...e_program.html

I’m struggling to understand that after skimming it. Is there anything simpler, more suitable for beginners? As I’ve said before, I haven’t studied computer science at university.

[MartyG]

It doesn't get much simpler than

print("my first program adds two numbers.")
print(2+3)

and "What is a program?". That is the basics.

If you want to get super super simple, then maybe start with Scratch - it's UI driven: https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/...amming-scratch

[Protocol Penguin]

Not interested in that kiddy nonsense. A decent free tutorial for the real stuff might help.