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Fallout 76 - Bethesda's new car crash of an online game

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    #31
    Originally posted by Brad View Post
    I do get the Tesco comparison but to make that comparison more accurate you need to think of Tesco selling a really cool Godzilla figure, that breathes real fire, and transforms into Bayonetta. But before you can find the Godzilla figure you have to wade through piles of Minions, Crazy Frog, Justin Beiber and Vanilla Ice figures. Thousands of them.
    What you need to consider here though is that you don't always get to be the Godzilla figure. For some people, you're the Crazy Frog and, in this case, there is a chance someone will have gone in for Godzilla and walk out with the Crazy Frog too. Whereas they would never have gone looking for the Crazy Frog. If Fallout 76 is a must-buy for you, you'll buy it anywhere and it won't matter. But if it's not, if it gets into the take a punt territory or if you think you might buy it but maybe not, having it somewhere where people will be anyway and making that an easy purchase would seem to be a huge advantage. The only question really is whether the extra sales would make up for losing Valve's 30% and Bethesda obviously think they won't. I wouldn't be so sure in the long run.

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      #32
      Originally posted by MartyG View Post
      A big factor of using Steam and wanting games to be purchased through Steam is the management of patching. Having to keep up with patches across multiple storefronts is a pain as I don't want them all loaded at start-up to sit there in the background doing nothing but eating up resources. Bethesda's patching in particular is a painful experience if you miss out on a patch release - it's slow and cumbersome and recently wouldn't patch at all leading me to uninstall 80GB of ESO garbage. Origin patching and download speed is also garbage.

      Steam consistently maxes out my bandwidth for new downloads and patches - it's the only storefront that manages to do this properly, and as such, not being on Steam is a massive negative for me.
      For me there's much a muchness when it comes to patching my games irrespective of whether it's Guild Wars 2, ESO, Steam, UPlay or whatever. Although I haven't looked into speeds in that much recently, most are pretty fast and/or maxing my connection easily. Not one of the launchers has given me an issue or had to have content be totally reinstalled that I can remember. Although games like Warframe, ESO and GW2 I log into daily for the rewards.

      I do notice the difference in fluctuations of the download speeds on Live and PSN more, but even there it can be fast to download content. Becuase I don't tend to use auto-updates or leave machines on standby I accept that every once in a while an update will stop me from playing (i.e. the Xbox One wanted to apply a 3.6GB OS update only a couple of days ago).

      However all of the services have removed the old horror days of going from v.1.01 to 1.02 to 1.03 to 1.04, but having to seek out the the update to go from 1.02 to 1.03 (i.e. as you use to have with Half-Life Deathmatch or TFC etc.).

      That said none of the clients sitting in your system tray and using up resources is ideal. This is where Microsoft should have a great advantage now and in the future with their Store. If only they could only make it a much better offering. And because all of the parties involved are so greedy the dream of one gaming client for PC is just a pipedream atm. I do agree with Tim Sweeney's reply that 'it's disproportionate to the cost of the services these stores perform, such as payment processing, download bandwidth, and customer service.'

      I do look at services such as Discord and Twitch and think Valve could have genuinely created those. That somewhere along the line it got so caught up in chasing storefront microtransactions (the only platform to have achieved this glorious feat.), VR and Linux that it took it's eyes off some of the more basic and needed features. Once it was the go-to app for chat and voice comms, but that crown has passed to Discord now. In addition whole communities are springing up around Twitch when Valve had the basic of streaming and sharing built already.

      Don't get me wrong Valve still have the best PC gaming client in the business, by quite a distance. But without the games it's doesn't really matter. Years ago I would have gone out of my way for a Steam version of a game. Now I don't really care. The game itself is more important.

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        #33
        There's also this: https://store.steampowered.com/promotion/familysharing

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          #34
          Problem with that is that any games that use a third party account authorisation (UPlay, Origin, Warframe etc.) won't work with that. Which Fallout 76 would have anyway as well.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
            What you need to consider here though is that you don't always get to be the Godzilla figure. For some people, you're the Crazy Frog and, in this case, there is a chance someone will have gone in for Godzilla and walk out with the Crazy Frog too. Whereas they would never have gone looking for the Crazy Frog. If Fallout 76 is a must-buy for you, you'll buy it anywhere and it won't matter. But if it's not, if it gets into the take a punt territory or if you think you might buy it but maybe not, having it somewhere where people will be anyway and making that an easy purchase would seem to be a huge advantage. The only question really is whether the extra sales would make up for losing Valve's 30% and Bethesda obviously think they won't. I wouldn't be so sure in the long run.
            I suspect Bethesda will put it on Steam eventually. Get all the day one buyers and those waiting for payday without giving up the 30% and then put it on Steam to mop up the rest.

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              #36
              Fallout 76 Images From Quakecon 2018
              (Just props and concept art)

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                #37
                Fallout 76 has loot boxes - but you can't currently buy them with real money: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fa.../1100-6461103/

                Why is RNG needed in a Fallout game?

                There will be player griefing in the game - the game does not require players to opt in to PVP combat, the only way the game is trying to stop it is by not rewarding players for doing it if one player doesn't engage in combat and fining players as murderer, marking them on the map. This isn't going to stop in game griefing. In order to avoid PVP you're going to have to keep your player under level 5 as you can't be player killed until then.

                Another bad move from Bethesda - just let people opt out of PVP altogether - it's a half-arsed system that won't work because griefers simply don't care so long long as they can grief - this above anything else is going to stop me getting the game.
                Last edited by MartyG; 14-08-2018, 05:41.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                  Fallout 76 has loot boxes - but you can't currently buy them with real money: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fa.../1100-6461103/
                  Sounds like it could either be a very innocent system, or a way of monetizing the game. Also sounds a bit like the original system Star Wars BattleFront 2 launched with. I would have though BGS would go with cosmetics and such like instead of this.

                  I will warn again that their sister studio, Zenimax Online Studios has implemented one of the most aggressive microtransactions systems into any game out the moment, which doesn't bode well for this.

                  Agree about the PVP. It's just sounds like it isn't going to be a game for people that want PVE.

                  As an aside I will say this Bethesda CS is amazing atm. I have an existing Bethesda.net account (from ESO), but for some reason recently mucked up in Xbox Skyrim and accidently created a new Bethesda account. Created a ticket which was not only dealt with in an hour but offered multiple options to solve (essentially merge the accounts) and made sure I was happy before closing the ticket. Very impressive.

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                    #39
                    pvp sounds fine to me from the live stream

                    Player versus player combat is opt-in. To initiate it, you shoot at someone and it does a small amount of damage. Howard likened this to “slapping someone at a bar.” If that person wants to do PVP with you, they fire back, and then weapons do full damage. Winning a PVP battle gives you some caps (the game’s currency) and some experience points based on your levels.

                    If you kill a player who never accepts your invitation to do PVP, you become a “wanted murderer.” You get no caps or experience.

                    Players are incentivised to hunt down wanted murderers. The murderers are marked on the map and players are encouraged to hunt them down. As Howard said, the mechanic “turns assholes into interesting content.”
                    PVP does not start until level 5.

                    You can ignore and block other players in a session, preventing them from interacting with you, and you can flag yourself as a pacifist if you don’t want to deal with the PVP mechanics.

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                      #40
                      PVP stuff would just bug the living hell out of me. It's not what I'd go into a Fallout game for. But then I guess that probably says it all - this Fallout isn't really aimed at me and seems to be going for the more online community people.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
                        pvp sounds fine to me from the live stream
                        That's not how it's going to work on real servers with real idiots. You can still kill people that haven't opted into PVP through the mechanism (you can't properly opt out entirely), so people will still be griefed.

                        Source: Any online game ever with a PVP element.
                        Last edited by MartyG; 14-08-2018, 11:31.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                          That's not how it's going to work on real servers with real idiots. You can still kill people that haven't opted into PVP through the mechanism (you can't properly opt out entirely), so people will still be griefed.

                          Source: Any online game ever with a PVP element.
                          yeah but grifers turn themselves into targets they gain nothing from killing and just end up turning a server against themselves. you can block players and you can have your own servers too so there are lots of ways to deal with idiots

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                            #43
                            Then why not just make PVP completely optional instead of all this convoluted nonsense?

                            It doesn't matter if there's nothing to gain from griefing in-game - the reward from griefing is the griefing itself and if you allow PVP on your server, someone will find a way of exploiting it because they enjoy annoying other people.

                            The solutions is to allow people to completely opt out, which Bethesda isn't doing.

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                              #44
                              Fallout 76 New Details: House Looting, Camps, and Dying During Quests

                              "Bethesda have constantly been sharing new details and updates on how certain systems will work in Fallout 76, from things such as randomized loot to trading and sleeping bonuses. We’ve now got a few more of those details, thanks to Bethesda’s SVP of marketing and PR Pete Hines’ activity on Twitter.


                              A fan asked a pretty interesting question- if you loot a house in the game, then quite the game and reload, would the loot in the house have respawned, allowing you to loot again? Hines said that that won’t be the case, and that everything in the world will respawn within a fixed number of hours (he didn’t say how many), and that it wouldn’t be dependent on the player.


                              Another interesting question asked Hines about camps. In Fallout 76, when you sign out of the game, your base goes offline with you. So if you log back in, and some other player has built their base in the same location while you were off, what happens to your base? According to Hines, since your base is portable, that shouldn’t be a problem, and you can just put it in some other location- though given how large the map in the game is, Hines hopes that that doesn’t have to happen very often.


                              Lastly, Hines confirmed that if you die in the middle of a quest, you have to pick it back up again wherever you respawn, since you can’t save the game anymore, thanks to automatic saving which is now done by the game itself.


                              Fallout 76 is due out on November 14 for the PS4, Xbox One, and PC. Its beta begins later this month."

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                                #45
                                I think RPG is stretching the definition here - this is more like a loot based survival game now, Rust lite. Managing hunger, thirst, radiation, weapon and armour degradation - all the things that make these games a chore to play. Still, who doesn't need cosmetic microtransactions in their game?

                                It's unlikely to stop there I'd wager, lootboxes crept into ESO after launch.



                                Online only multiplayer game as a service. Kerching.
                                Last edited by MartyG; 09-10-2018, 08:22.

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