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  1. #11
    I can watch Salvation easily enough but it fails to deliver the experience the other four films had promised from a future war. The T2-3D ride showed it how to portray it but instead we got a lot of brown, blandness and Sam Worthington. It has enough going on to keep the viewer engaged till the credits but in the end doesn't really contribute anything or worth to the storyline, it's more a day in the life job that relies on the T-800 sequence at the end to satisfy fans.

  2. #12
    I don't agree with that. For me, it contributes much more than 3 or Genisys did and was one that more (better) movies could have built on. Whereas 2 makes 3 and Genisys pretty redundant as far as I'm concerned - 2 will always be a better version of what those two movies are, whereas Salvation at least stands alone as its own thing and a pretty decent sci-fi film too. Because I saw it much after the vocal dislike for the movie, I'm not entirely sure what didn't land for people but I'm hoping it's not just that it wasn't another T2.

  3. #13
    I think it's the fact Salvation stands alone that was the beginning of the end of it (let alone how it was supposed to lead into two more films originally). The films focus on Worthington and the nature of his characters circumstances feel redundant to the franchises storyline, whilst T3 has issues it resolves plot issues from T2 and on its own somewhat delivers an ending that loops back onto the original film (Genisys less so as it just explodes the plot for the sake of undelivered sequels). Salvation's contribution to the overall series is meaningless even if it means it stands as a film you can easily watch in isolation and enjoy.

    I think, as much as fans had wanted to see it, the reality of a future set Terminator film was always going to be a hard sell to audiences too. It's a good threat for the other films but too easily slips into being a war film set up which is less interesting for the series. That's not broaching how the film rarely looks like it should. Fans wanted:

    But instead got

    Instead of effectively delivering on what the audience would be most interested in (finally showing the future as depicted in the previous three movies and related merchandise, the fall of Skynet and the T-800 and Kyle being sent back) we got a film more focused on a character who carries no importance to the audience on a journey that adds nothing. It's effectively a lesson in teaching Connor something he already learnt in T2 and T3.

    It's perhaps most telling that Genisys doesn't make any attempt to comment on Salvation or to continue its aesthetic depictions, instead reverting hard back to T1-3. Also, that they felt the need to have Cameron back it after Salvation.

    Salvation certainly isn't a bad film, I never skip it when watching through the series, but it feels like more of a slog out of the four and certainly disconnected hard for audiences beyond it not being T2-like.

  4. #14
    My acceptance of "fans wanted" as any kind of criticism for a movie is currently at an all-time low. It is the worst way to approach any movie. Nevertheless, when it comes to a series watch through, I will never watch 3 or Genysis again. If I was in the mood for that kind of movie, 2 serves the exact same need only better. The fact that they fall back on that makes me think Terminator really has nowhere to go as a franchise.

  5. #15
    It only needed the first film, which is still brilliant. I've always thought of T2 as overrated. I was properly hyped for it too ... but it was actually pretty dull, a special fx showcase and not a lot more.

    I went to see The Terminator at the cinema last year and 20 minutes in the screen just went blank. Show over. Within 2 seconds someone in the audience said 'it's the machines'

    That was the end of the show though. It was it's one and only showing too. Bah.

  6. #16
    The first Terminator is still absolutely brilliant. Yes, I feel it's easily the peak of the series.

    T2 for me is in the same category as Aliens and Nightmare on Elm Street 3 - brilliant when you're a young teen and way more fun but doesn't quite hold up to the same scrutiny as an adult, whereas the original film in each series still remains as great as ever (well, Nightmare is hardly in the same league as Alien but hopefully you get my point about 3).

  7. #17
    I didn't even enjoy T2 back when it came out. I've always found it a bit lacking. As for the other sequels I haven't watched any of them. Considering Salvation: the future world of The Terminator, to me, is like the real world bits in The Matrix ... it's part of the overall story but not a part I want to spend more than a minute or two in.

  8. #18
    Yep, the current state of... well, the vocal online fanbases of franchises like Star Wars etc are definitely circling an all-time low point.

    In terms of series high point though, T2>T1 for me quite easily. I do enjoy T1 but at its core its a very simple film that relies almost entirely on the unrelenting nature of the T-800 to hold suspense and it sounds awful but the films aged too much for me for that sense to still carry through with the film. Whilst T2 abandoned the darker, simpler thriller nature of the original I find it expands on the first films concept magnificently and elevates the original film by quite a large margin. T2 can be a but slow in parts but it's a strong film, a superb sequel, ambitious and has genuinely iconic moments the likes the franchise never experienced in other entries.

    In that regard it's why I prefer Aliens to Alien as well. Alien has aged much better than T1 has but likewise Aliens contains aspects of what makes the first film works whilst absolutely exploding the concept wide open but in positive ways. It's another great example of how to do a sequel and like T2 they're strong on their own merit.

    Rare examples though, probably telling that both followed on from very lean and low on detail originals.

  9. #19
    Well I did EXACTLY what I said I wouldn’t do and watched Terminator 3 last night. That’s how much you can trust my word. In my defence, it’s the only one I hadn’t watched recently and had only seen it once back in the day so, following this discussion, I thought I might give it a watch to see how it compares with my memory of it.

    One thing that didn’t match my memory is that it doesn’t have as many gags as I remembered. Nowhere near as many as Genisys and probably not even as much stuff played for laughs as in 2. I suspect the opening star glasses bit, which really didn’t match the tone of the movie, defined my memory of the tone. But it actually doesn’t play a lot for laughs. This is a good thing.

    The other thing that came out better than my memory is just how it looks. For whatever reason, I remember thinking it looked very TV-like and nowhere near as cinematic as it should have. I now am not sure why. It’s actually a pretty good looking movie and some of the effects are still very impressive.

    But the negatives stand - mainly that, while not a bad movie, everything it has was done better in 2 and this really never aims to reach beyond that at all. Terminator tries to kill them, they try to survive and prevent the end of the world. It’s pretty much the same. Only now it’s kind of muddled because there is a virus subplot that they play no role in almost until the end where, as it happens, they still play no role in and also the Terminator is out to get other people so doesn’t quite have that sense of focus. The TX is somewhat unintentionally comical where Patrick was incredibly menacing and Arnie was a relentless powerhouse. Some of the action sequences seemed more going through the motions than being exciting (the crane chase in particular - why take the crane?). And John Connor was very poor. I don’t even blame the actor or any one individual because it seems like quite a conscious thing they were all going for but he was weak. Danes played her part well but it felt like she diluted things rather than adding a new crucial element.

    It’s a cover version of 2 without the guitar solo. Genisys attempted to add the guitar solo back in and it started well and then switched to the accordion.

  10. #20
    Yep, the humour isn't plentiful but when it hits it's massively poorly judged so stands out like a sore thumb. The cover version vie is the best way to describe the film, you can feel the beats in the writers room where they thought it'd be easy to make a popular sequel to T2 by offering more of the same.

    In the first 15 minutes they probably decided:

    We've done robot, we've done liquid metal... robot with liquid metal?
    We've done male... female this time?
    We've done bad Arnie, we've done good Arnie... good and bad Arnie?

    Ticking their way through T2's elements probably assuming the ending would define the film enough. It kind of does, it's a damned good ending but the good moments are strung together by stuff that errs to popcorn filler rather than great.


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