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The Car Thread: Mark III

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    I'm not convinced hydrogen is the answer. Despite my job likely relying on it in the future. Steam cracking of gas to produce hydrogen is expensive and polluting. Or do it electrolytic style using renewable electricity for a cleaner production process. Or you could just bung that same electricity in a battery.
    I like the idea of hydrogen fuel cell cars as they should weigh less than a typical BEV and would be quicker to fuel. But the cost to setup a network of hydrogen filling stations and associated tankers to transport it will be massive versus installing more chargers. Electricity is already widely available all over the country.
    Also the hydrogen tank in a car is expensive and has a finite life span. And fuel cells aren't great for efficiency and are also expensive.

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      The grid will in no way be able to support every car on the road charging from it. Also there’s not enough lithium to turn even 1% of cars into electric.

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        Originally posted by CMcK View Post
        Or you could just bung that same electricity in a battery.
        Take your point but you simply can't as has been demonstrated above, not everyone can charge at home easily.

        Originally posted by CMcK View Post
        I like the idea of hydrogen fuel cell cars as they should weigh less than a typical BEV and would be quicker to fuel. But the cost to setup a network of hydrogen filling stations and associated tankers to transport it will be massive versus installing more chargers. Electricity is already widely available all over the country.
        EV MU's would require huge batteries and that would eat into the weight of the 44ft single deck or double deck trailer they are toting which would mean either a change in legislation to carry more combined weight or simply more HCV's on the road.
        Either way road wear is increased. Along with brake dust and tyre wear emissions, both of which the industry is looking into.
        Leccy is widely available but as previously noted the infrastructure at the consumer or back-end is not there and would require massive investment.

        Originally posted by CMcK View Post
        Also the hydrogen tank in a car is expensive and has a finite life span. And fuel cells aren't great for efficiency and are also expensive.
        Fair point, but EV cells also have a finite lifespan and are very expensive, virtually the cost of a new car if you are buying the part by itself.
        EV cells also have reduced performance in cold weather - e.g. range.

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          Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
          The grid will in no way be able to support every car on the road charging from it. Also thereÂ’s not enough lithium to turn even 1% of cars into electric.
          Not everyone will be charging their car at the same time. People don't travel far in a regular day so won't need to top up all time. And even if they charge their car like a phone it won't take long to top up. The grid already copes with the 1600 to 1900 peak each weekeday when people get home from work, school etc and starting using their washing machine, cookers, kettles and tumble driers. I get four hours cheap electricity at night and that's when most people are likely to charge. It's saves money and helps to balance the grid. Renewables are still generating at night but demand is small.
          There's not actually much lithium in a car battery. The battery in my car weighs 230kg but less than 10% is lithium.

          Originally posted by Anpanman View Post
          Take your point but you simply can't as has been demonstrated above, not everyone can charge at home easily.


          EV MU's would require huge batteries and that would eat into the weight of the 44ft single deck or double deck trailer they are toting which would mean either a change in legislation to carry more combined weight or simply more HCV's on the road.
          Either way road wear is increased. Along with brake dust and tyre wear emissions, both of which the industry is looking into.
          Leccy is widely available but as previously noted the infrastructure at the consumer or back-end is not there and would require massive investment.


          Fair point, but EV cells also have a finite lifespan and are very expensive, virtually the cost of a new car if you are buying the part by itself.
          EV cells also have reduced performance in cold weather - e.g. range.
          I'm not completely opposed to fuel cell vehicles but don't seem them having a large role outside of bulk transport. Brake dust emissions are way less from an EV as the vehicles use regen most of the time to slow down. I've only triggered my mechnical brakes once in five months of owning an EV. The rear brakes are drums and sealed for life. The front brakes should last far longer than an ICE vehicle. The tyre particle problem is a concern but given the trend over the last number of years with the widespread adoption of SUVs and crossovers cars are already placing a lot more demand on tyres.

          Modern battery management systems should see the battery in an EV have a longer useful lifespan. And there is still a lot of value in even abused old batteries as home storage and portable supplies. Plus battery recycling is now getting very effective.
          Replacement battery packs are going to be pricey as you say, approx £18,000 for a Tesla Model S, but that's for a £60,000+ car. The nature of the battery construction means individual pouches can be replaced saving a lot of money.

          It's going to be interesting seeing how the car world evolves over the next couple of decades. I'm hoping EVs will bring performance vehicles to more people. Plenty of people can afford to buy a second hand sports car but the costs of running one are a different matter.
          Bring on those second hand Boxster EVs!

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            Speaking of fuel, this e10 is absolutely crap. Noticed a 15% drop in efficiency over the course since it got switched over, gone back to 97 or 98 ron again despite the cost difference.

            So who got a big fat bung for getting this scam through then?

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              You shouldn't notice any difference with E10. The fuel is still blended the same legal standards (RON, sulphur content, benzene content etc) as before. It's probably costing more to make due to having to buy the ethanol in. Ethanol producers will be delighted. Although given gas prices at the moment it's probably rather expensive to produce from ethane.

              (I make components for blending fuels, aviation fuel, LPG, hydrogen etc at work.)

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                  Didn’t we have colour changing cars in the 90’s?

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                    New favourite getaway car right there

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                      Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
                      Didn’t we have colour changing cars in the 90’s?
                      Yeah, of you drove them too fast and they got hot and sweaty in their wheel arches.

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                        Look what I saw outside the Mc Donald's, Yesterday. A classic Fiat Panda. Seeing one of these in Japan is really rare. Left hand drive model and mint. Probably an Italian import.



                        Here's a cropped image to give a closer look at the car. Seems to be original too in terms of body parts. Original wheels as well.

                        Last edited by Yakumo; 16-01-2022, 15:07.

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                          Originally posted by Yakumo View Post
                          Look what I saw outside the Mc Donald's, Yesterday. A classic Fiat Panda. Seeing one of these in Japan is really rare. Left hand drive model and mint. Probably an Italian import.
                          With it being that type of front grille, I think it's probably one of the later imports done through Fiat Auto Japan. They were always sold as left-hand-drive there to my knowledge (strange "foreign car" cultural prestige thing that still apparently applied to cheap little cars).



                          I'm told they were a minor hit there in the mid 80s/early 90s, but I guess it's rare to see one now that hasn't become bean tins in any case.

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                            As everyone here knows, the Japanese look after their stuff. Apart from the cigarette smell, of course!

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                              Originally posted by Hirst View Post
                              With it being that type of front grille, I think it's probably one of the later imports done through Fiat Auto Japan. They were always sold as left-hand-drive there to my knowledge (strange "foreign car" cultural prestige thing that still apparently applied to cheap little cars).



                              I'm told they were a minor hit there in the mid 80s/early 90s, but I guess it's rare to see one now that hasn't become bean tins in any case.
                              Seeing any old car in Japan is rare due to the stupid MOT system they have over here. Once a car reaches 10 years old it becomes incredibly expensive to get the MOT even if the car is in perfect working order.

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                                Originally posted by Yakumo View Post
                                Seeing any old car in Japan is rare due to the stupid MOT system they have over here. Once a car reaches 10 years old it becomes incredibly expensive to get the MOT even if the car is in perfect working order.
                                Bonus 10% taxes once they hit 13 years old now too! Just a way to force people to buy new cars they don't really need. The only benefit being if you live outside Japan so you can scoop up all their low-mileage, well-maintained goodies. Or in my case buy a really high-mileage, not particularly well-maintained ex-taxi and drive around pulling the lever to open the back door. Need to get back to fixing it this year really.

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