Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

[kryss]

I think the idea of loving your home country is fine, but "patriotism" just brings to mind blind allegiance and justification to do whatever they want as long as they fly the flag.

[MENTION=9465]Brad[/MENTION]: unashamed?

[Dogg Thang]

There's a reason it is regarded as a sin in Christianity, a disease in Islam, an evil in Judaism, and a poison in Buddhism.

Going to speculate that this is because it makes it harder to indoctrinate people and have them accept religious authority. Keep the people meek.

As others have covered, pride is often meant as a rejection of shame and can be hugely important in that context, especially when trying to overcome repression or oppression. I think this could probably extend to countries too, although perhaps it’s more about culture. The UK has been the coloniser so your perspective is different and national pride can be a demonstration of dominance. For those small countries who have been invaded and taken over many times, national pride could mean some remnants of their culture surviving that. So I think it can play an important role there too. And as Colin expresses, you can often just love a place and its people. I think that’s a different thing to blind flag worship.

And it’s when we get into that flag worship that I think we have a huge problem. The idea that your arbitrary border (rather than culture or people) gives you a sense of pride to the point where you should not question what that border means, exclude or dominate those beyond that arbitrary border and act on the orders of those representing that border leads to no good whatsoever. It’s a dangerous tool for those who want to control and can be horribly abused, and is abused on a regular basis. Even as someone whose family comes from two small regularly-invaded countries, while I would promote an understanding of culture and history, I have no urge to promote nationalism of any kind and just roll my eyes hard at flag worship. It is a barrier and a danger.

[charlesr]

Is that not just the same thing on a larger scale?

Hah, maybe. Answer the question though. Asking new ones is unforumitic

[Zen Monkey]

Going to speculate that this is because it makes it harder to indoctrinate people and have them accept religious authority. Keep the people meek.

On the contrary, pride is encouraged and used by religious authority: Christianity is the only truth. Only we Buddhists walk the pure path. We Jews alone are God's chosen. All prideful nonsense.

I think you mistake the teachings for the institutions that followed.

[fishbowlhead]

Use it to make yourself better, work on things, have pride in what you do, but always let it fall before the man/woman.

[dataDave]

Best thing to come out of Scotland is Mel Gibson.

[Zaki]

I'm going to go slightly against the grain here in as much as although I'm not some mental patriot, I absolutely love my country and I've never really felt at home anywhere else. For all the travelling I've done, and all the time I've lived outside of Scotland it'll always be home. It's just a beautiful, beautiful place and as silly as it sounds as soon as I land back here on a plane or drive back over the border, it always feels like a weight has lifted a bit. I can't explain it, it's just the way I feel.

I don't mind saying it, I do take pride in a lot of the things we do here, how the people are and the beauty of the place. No, I never had any input in to the majority of it, but I'm not going to pretend it's not how I feel just because the majority here are saying it's stupid.

I mean I should also point out that for as many good people as there are here, there will probably be two others that are ****ing arseholes, but that's an issue anywhere in the world.

Colin's Post reminded me of Amy Macdonald

[kryss]

Hah, maybe. Answer the question though. Asking new ones is unforumitic

This whole thread is Antiforumite. Banned, BANNED FROM THE GROVE!

[Neon Ignition]

I mean, I fully accept that living in the UK is better than living in most places in the world but other than that I have no allegiance to the UK. I'd skip town to a better option no trouble if the need arose. Patriotism is just sheep mentality to an imaginary ideal - "I love my country!", well your country doesn't give two s---'s about you. It's not different than the equally ridiculous concept of being deeply devoted to a football team, it's an empty devotion you'll never benefit from and one that isn't earned in the first place.

[JazzFunk]

The fact is, I'm just jizz from a fanny rat's ball bag.

That's my initial building block, being white and English are secondz and thiiiiirdz, I never had any choice in the matter.

HOWEVER, anything that spurts out of this sorry frame, every spurt or rank fart of anything, I am proud of, because I designed it all myself, every word, every failure, every fart.

I am an animated lump of flesh, that is what I am, I am no different to pigs or cows on the gourmet scale.

Worst fact is that people who are patriotic/religious/patriotic-religious ARE gonna run the world, sadfax but trufax.

[dataDave]

The fact is, I'm just jizz from a fanny rat's ball bag.

This is the first thing that sprung to mind the very moment I held my son for the first time, that smell...

[monel]

I can understand people being proud of their culture or history or whatever.

However I think some politicians and groups can exploit patriotic sentiments or elements and use them for suspect reasons. I'm really tired and haven't really worded this well.

[nakamura]

I am not patriotic and I especially see very little to be proud about being British.

However, I don't have an issue with patriotism in some areas, particularly when small or societies that are behind so to speak make advances or achieve something unexpected.

But ultimately, it just breeds hate. It's literally pot luck where you are born, like a weird random selection.

[monel]

When I was a lot younger I used to think flags are kind of like gang signs.

[nakamura]

When I was a lot younger I used to think flags are kind of like gang signs.

You've only got to look at social media and those with England or British flags to know how true that is.