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  1. #31
    Don't see many games killing kids in them. LoU hardly clichéd.

  2. #32
    Shadow of the Tomb Raider kills one in the first hour or so, Lara doesn't seem to mind though

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Asura View Post
    Bigger than Nathan Drake being a treasure hunter, but if you removed the cutscenes, you'd instead think he was some kind of sociopathic mass-murderer?
    To be honest, the Nate as a mass killer issue has always seemed to be something of an eye roll moment when it comes up, same with the recent Tomb Raider's. Both franchises channel varying degrees of inspiration from stuff such as Indiana Jones where killing enemies is a common occurance. The kill count is higher but that's because it's a gameplay mechanic and a core component of the game that neither can afford to not utilise or else they'd solely become walking simulators.

    The main complaints seem to be that it's either unrealistic (because in real life archealogy and unearthing tombs regularly involves elaborate traps, world ending boxes and the supernatural) or that the lead characters aren't realistically broken enough mentally from all the senseless killing.

    I feel like Drake killing masses of people being poorly handled in the later games it's addressed is largely because it's a retroactive plot point to address a criticism that was stupid to have been brought up in the first place. Nate isn't a gritty, realistic lead - he's a hyper real, action figure leaping through exaggerated boldly coloured set pieces meant to be no more realistic than Arnie in an 80's action movie.

    LoU failed that comparison for me because it attempted to be poe faced and serious but those mechanics that made UC work restrict LoU. The plot point for the daughter could have landed but I'd have gotten much more out of it if she'd been beside Joel for maybe a third of the game so as a player I'd have some connection to her as they build with Ellie, especially if marketing materials didn't give it blatantly away she wasn't a major player in the game too. It could have been a powerful moment like when Aerith is suddenly yanked out the game.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman Falls View Post
    To be honest, the Nate as a mass killer issue has always seemed to be something of an eye roll moment when it comes up, same with the recent Tomb Raider's. Both franchises channel varying degrees of inspiration from stuff such as Indiana Jones where killing enemies is a common occurance. The kill count is higher but that's because it's a gameplay mechanic and a core component of the game that neither can afford to not utilise or else they'd solely become walking simulators.
    That's the thing though, it wasn't. Indy kills surprisingly few enemies, even in Raiders. The bodycount in the Uncharted games is insane, and for the vast majority of those enemies, Nate shoots them dead (as opposed to environmental stuff, like the guy who gets mashed into the propeller blade in Raiders).

    I don't know; something about that in Uncharted always ripped me out of the narrative. It doesn't in Gears of War because I accept that GoW is about being a space marine with the physique of a wrestler and shooting things to death. Similarly God of War (the originals) were gory and ridiculously OTT but they didn't claim to be anything else. Kratos kills many foes; he pulls harpies out of the sky, rips off their wings and stuffs them down their throats because he's angry. He's like a personification of fury in the story, and he fights like that.

    The way Nathan Drake does that, then laughs and jokes in the next scene just felt bizarre to me. I just always felt like the combat and the tone were from two different games that were somehow smashed together.

    And this is totally subjective, by the way. I'm about to finish Xenoblade 2, have enjoyed it, but the main character in that murders just as many foes and kills many random monsters (read "animals"). It was just something about Uncharted that rubbed me the wrong way.
    Last edited by Asura; 21-09-2018 at 02:19 PM.

  5. #35
    Yep, I'm with you on this one Asura. I think once the acting and storytelling got better, as it does in Uncharted and Last of Us, the more the disconnect between gameplay and cut scenes occurs because it's harder to reconcile one with the other. The cut scenes from Last of Us were incredibly sophisticated but then you switch into what is effectively Nathan Drake versus pirates and it's such a jarring switch that I just couldn't stay with the game. No problem shooting a thousand bad guys in Doom but when the characters are written more real and look so real in Uncharted, what's happening in the gameplay feels weird and wrong.

    That's why I feel, when it comes to narrative, the more minimal games are currently much more sophisticated because often their gameplay is the narrative rather than having cut scenes stuck onto a gameplay loop, with one exposing the nature of the other.

  6. #36
    I think that's why I disliked the storylines of the Uncharted games increasingly calling out Nate's bodycount. It felt like the devs needlessly trying to be clever and self-referential of things fans had raised with them but it undermined the tone of the games which were entirely unrealistic full of evil rich men with thousands of murderous foot soldiers. Nate never needed to morally account for his killing, UC was never that deep, he just needed to be morally better than the rent-a-goons he was forced to survive. Until the more hard work fourth game the cutscene Drake is flippant about what he's going through but to be overwise would make for a trawl of experience (something UC4 leant a little into and proved for to the extent it reflected on the miserable downer of the subject).

    I do like the idea of an Uncharted type game which is more realistic and who's storyline explores the themes of its lead being mentally weighed down by the immoral choices they're forced to make but UC was never the franchise to do that. At best you'd get Far Cry level lip service.


    Like you say, it's an entirely subjective thing but broadly the way treasure hunters are universally represented in the Uncharted franchise, Chloe's the same etc always made it easy for me to roll with the characters actions. It always felt like an odd one to pull apart on that basis, Nate not needing to be treated any deeper than Bond initially.

    Last edited by Superman Falls; 21-09-2018 at 02:31 PM.

  7. #37
    Not played it myself but I watched the playthrough of GameGrump's Potatoman Seeks the Troof and it was pretty enlightening to say the least.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Asura View Post
    That's the thing though, it wasn't. Indy kills surprisingly few enemies, even in Raiders. The bodycount in the Uncharted games is insane, and for the vast majority of those enemies, Nate shoots them dead (as opposed to environmental stuff, like the guy who gets mashed into the propeller blade in Raiders).

    I don't know; something about that in Uncharted always ripped me out of the narrative. It doesn't in Gears of War because I accept that GoW is about being a space marine with the physique of a wrestler and shooting things to death. Similarly God of War (the originals) were gory and ridiculously OTT but they didn't claim to be anything else. Kratos kills many foes; he pulls harpies out of the sky, rips off their wings and stuffs them down their throats because he's angry. He's like a personification of fury in the story, and he fights like that.

    The way Nathan Drake does that, then laughs and jokes in the next scene just felt bizarre to me. I just always felt like the combat and the tone were from two different games that were somehow smashed together.
    Yeah, I agree. I found this weird right from the first one that I played (which was Golden Abyss, although I've played and enjoyed them all now).

    The modern Tomb Raider games are also affected by it. I've only played the first, but the odd segues between Lara shivering by a fire on an outcrop and then, seconds later, blasting multiple mercenaries in the face with explosive shotgun rounds was kinda laughable.

    I get that they're both action heroes, but such cold blooded mass murder doesn't sit right with how the characters are portrayed outside the gameplay. One thing I've always thought about Uncharted a series is that, while all of the games are a lot of fun, I'd find them a little more enjoyable if they depended less on shooting people. It would have been really cool if a degree of skill was added to the exploration parts, and more emphasis was placed on looking for stuff.

    They did it a bit with 4 - I really liked the Jeep level early on - but I always felt the games were just a bit more shooty shooty than I would have preferred.

    Anyway, emotionally affecting games. I've already droned on above so I'll keep this brief, echo others, and say Life Is Strange. The part where Max goes into an alternative present and sees how Chloe's life would be, good god, that was dark. It didn't flinch, either. It ground on like a slow motion car crash. Tough to play.

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