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N64 RGB AMP - Star Fox 64 image problems.

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    #16
    Originally posted by Zaki View Post
    I'll test on my bvm and ossc this week.
    Have you got a modern RGB amp installed in your N64? If so, I'd like to know how Star Fox looks on an LCD with and without the OSSC. Star Fox 64 looks terrible through the OSSC and Framemeister.

    I have a feeling that modern RGB amps cause a problem with Star Fox 64, but I have no evidence this is a known issue.

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      #17
      Mine uses the Sony CXA2075 encoder. This is a 5 year old mod, but looks pretty nice via OSSC.

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        #18
        Must be your setup Leon; I have it cleaner than a nuns habit

        Deblur is off

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          #19
          There is no interference / vertical lines etc. 15bit mode even clears up a bit of the chequer boarding

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            #20
            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
            Must be your setup Leon; I have it cleaner than a nuns habit

            Deblur is off

            Image 9 EC333 FD 1 EE0 4971 892 A E5 AE4 F3277 A1 hosted in ImgBB


            I've now been told that it's normal for Star Fox 64 to have all the image problems I'm experiencing.

            The thing is - I've tried the N64 on my Sony TV and Dell monitor. With 3 different Scart cables. Two different PSUs. The Framemeister & OSSC. So it's not my setup.

            If you're saying Star Fox can look clean using an N64 RGB amp, then there must be something wrong with my amp/mod.

            I'm obviously not happy. If Star Fox 64 doesn't look this terrible on other people's N64s, then I will have to try and get a refund.

            Another reason why I'm going on about Star Fox, is because I have no idea how many other N64 games might have these image problems. I don't have many games for the system.
            Last edited by Leon Retro; 02-10-2018, 02:44.

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              #21
              Before you ask for a refund Leon, start a thread on shmups forum in the Hardware section - loads of guys have experience with different RGB mods over there:

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                #22
                Originally posted by Zaki View Post
                Before you ask for a refund Leon, start a thread on shmups forum in the Hardware section - loads of guys have experience with different RGB mods over there:

                https://shmups.system11.org/viewforum.php?f=6
                Thanks for the link -- I'll take a look.

                The only thing I can do with Star Fox 64 -- is when I turn the brightness(the blacks are grey) down quite a bit, the image looks totally mint. The noise is only in the blacks, once you set the brightness to the level it should be, it's fine. I will make an OSSC & Framemeister profile just for Star Fox 64.

                I was playing Mario 64 and it looks more stunning than I've ever seen with the new amp. There's no noise in the image -- with everything looking really clear and sharp. The same with other games like F-Zero X, Wave Race, and Sin & Punishment. Everything - brightness, black levels, contrast, colours - are perfect in all my other games. So at least the issues with Star Fox don't affect other favourite N64 titles.

                It's such a shame Star Fox 64 can have problems with RGB amps.
                Last edited by Leon Retro; 03-10-2018, 00:12.

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                  #23
                  I've spent the last few hours putting my Viletim N64RGB board back in my Japanese Nintendo 64. This time around I went ahead and hooked up my USB Blaster to update the firmware with Borti's IGR firmware that enables de-blur, 15-bit colour and the ability to reset the console via a key command. My PCB is more than sufficiently grounded and I'm using the 75 ohm composite sync generated by the PCB.

                  I'm not seeing any noise on Star Fox 64 or any other of my games. The blacks are deeper in this 15-bit colour mode, but it appears to mess with the texture gradients (as seen on the Great Fox) in the intro. With the de-blur enabled the whites on black are tack sharp.

                  I'm using an official UK N64 power supply and an official GameCube RGB SCART.
                  Last edited by speedlolita; 03-10-2018, 01:45.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by speedlolita View Post
                    I'm not seeing any noise on Star Fox 64 or any other of my games.

                    The guy behind the custom firmware for the N64RGB that allows '15bit' mode, explains in that video 'dvdx2' posted that Star Fox has lots of noise in the blacks for various reasons to do with how Nintendo used the hardware in a strange way for that particular game.

                    15bit mode is a cure for that issue. But because my N64 is a US launch machine, it doesn't need the N64RGB board, so I've just got a simple amp. This doesn't allow any special modes to be selected -- so I've just got to accept Star Fox has boosted black levels that reveal loads of noise. I just have to turn down the brightness a bit and it looks fine.

                    As my new amp has the 'low-pass filter' turned off and uses Csync, I get a really nice clear image. It's definitely quite a bit nicer than the first amp I had -- and looks quite stunning through the OSSC or Framemeister.

                    It's just a shame that one of my favourite games[Star Fox 64] can have a problem with modern amps, simply because Nintendo did some unusual things with the tech. At least 15bit cures that for people with an N64RGB board.

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                      #25
                      The NESRGB board uses that same amplification chip, if you're weren't aware. Difference is that it has the post processing too. My own unit is the second revision of the Nintendo 64 (NUS-CPU-02) so it doesn't need one of these boards either, I just thought it would be a better solution at the end of the day.

                      Perhaps it's just that my CRT is naturally masking the symptoms you're seeing. As I mentioned, 15-bit makes other elements of the image look wrong too so it isn't a perfect solution in my mind either. You've mentioned that you're only having problems with Star Fox 64 so it looks like the issue is with the software in the end.

                      It does make me wonder if using an EverDrive to adjust the image would do that one title any good for people with more sensitive equipment.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by speedlolita View Post
                        The NESRGB board uses that same amplification chip, if you're weren't aware.
                        I didn't know that.

                        Originally posted by speedlolita View Post
                        Perhaps it's just that my CRT is naturally masking the symptoms you're seeing.
                        I think the modern amps might only cause the problem with LCDs and scalers. I might get my 14" Trinitron and see how the N64 looks on that.

                        Originally posted by speedlolita View Post
                        As I mentioned, 15-bit makes other elements of the image look wrong too so it isn't a perfect solution in my mind either. You've mentioned that you're only having problems with Star Fox 64 so it looks like the issue is with the software in the end.
                        The guy in that video mentions something about Star Fox doing things with colour bits, or something like that, and it's unusual. So Star Fox can exhibit image problems with modern amps.

                        Originally posted by speedlolita View Post
                        It does make me wonder if using an EverDrive to adjust the image would do that one title any good for people with more sensitive equipment.
                        Maybe there could be a rom hack to fix the problem. I'd probably buy an Everdrive if someone did that. But I think it's too expensive for me, seeing there aren't many N64 games I still want to play.

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                          #27
                          The deblur mod is definitely the way to go now; It really lifts the veil on a lot of n64 games and sharpens up image quality really well

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
                            The deblur mod is definitely the way to go now; It really lifts the veil on a lot of n64 games and sharpens up image quality really well
                            The image I'm seeing is sharp and clear, but obviously there are still blurry textures all over the place. I guess the 'deblur' could be seen as a benefit in some games, but it might depend on how you expect/want N64 games to look. I'm not sure if a game like Wave Race would look nicer if everything had sharp/jaggy edges. Is it true that Mario Kart 64 looks a bit strange with deblur on?

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                              The image I'm seeing is sharp and clear, but obviously there are still blurry textures all over the place. I guess the 'deblur' could be seen as a benefit in some games, but it might depend on how you expect/want N64 games to look. I'm not sure if a game like Wave Race would look nicer if everything had sharp/jaggy edges. Is it true that Mario Kart 64 looks a bit strange with deblur on?
                              I ‘ll try wave race and mk64 over the weekend and see how they fair, but I haven’t been disappointed yet. The sharpness isn’t the type you get from dialling the sharpness control up on your tv; it’s more like going from a bilinear to point filter - crystal clear

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                                #30
                                Where are you guys getting your modded N64s? I really want a modded US machine with deblur option

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