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  1. #21
    Council scenes are boring. I can't think of a decent scifi with good council scenes. Star Wars, Star Trek, Matrix movies, whatever. Your movie has descended into the toilet the moment you cut to a council scene.

    And yes, what you're describing there is just bad storytelling - crumbs of story dropped around what we're actually seeing.

    Edit: Also, I agree it's visually strong. The strongest of the prequels in my view.
    Last edited by Dogg Thang; 16-04-2021 at 09:30 AM.

  2. #22
    Star Trek: Nemesis had an okay council scene, but mostly because everyone gets killed within the opening 4 minutes

    Rewatching Episode I recently really brought home how bad the film is. I think part of it as well is that it feels so disjointed from even its two stablemates thanks to the time gap in film between them, it's what leads to later oddities like how TPM existing as it does just makes Anakin's relationship with Padme creepy rather than involving.

    I think as well, for the most part, its biggest sin is that after decades of waiting it actually detracts from the original trilogy in both quality and narrative. We're early on out of the gate but I'm more than willing to stick a flag in the ground and mark Phantom Menace as very easily the worst Star Wars movie. It's close to a failure at every level and is one of those films that its survival over the years stems purely from the franchise it exists in, where it not tied to the franchise it would have been tossed to the scrap heap like Battlefield Earth etc.

  3. #23
    Yep, I think you're right. Like Asura, I must admit that I was wowed by the spectacle on first watch. Maul was incredible. The pod racing scene was thrilling. And like I said, design and music are both great so I can understand people having a level of appreciation. But my last rewatch was just before The Force Awakens came out and I watched through all six movies and, after watching it, I knew I would never ever watch that film again. Once the spectacle novelty wears off, I find it a bad, frustrating watch. I simply don't enjoy it.

    And to your point, one thing that really bugs me is that it makes the originals worse. Generally, I have no problem with bad sequels or spin offs or whatever because they don't taint the original movies - you just don't watch the ones you don't like. But the Star Wars prequels are different because they actively retcon stuff in the original movies and then, to make it worse, Lucas then put that prequel stuff in the original movies. You don't get to disregard prequel Anakin, for example, because he's right there in Return of the Jedi. There is so much stuff that just feels wrong when you rewatch the originals (like Vader made C3PO???) that these movies stink up the originals. And that's something that the newer sequel movies don't do, in my view - much easier to disregard those if you don't like them.

  4. #24
    Thinking about it I can't even think of a reason for Episode I to exist at all. I don't think the overall arc of discovery Anakin, his turn, the Clone Wars etc is an issue at all and there's more than enough there to make a solid trilogy building up to the originals but we didn't need toddler Anakin and we didn't need a focus on the political debates and his teen angst before cutting the trilogy off a the point things become interesting.

  5. #25
    I realise this is totally against the whole point of this thread - but personally, I'm not that into canons. I don't really get especially invested in big overarching plotlines for series, extended universes, or any of that kind of stuff.

    One reason I'm generally turned off by that kind of stuff is because of exactly what Episode 1 does. It attempts to explain everything, and unnecessarily connect things that don't need to be connected. Anakin creating C3PO is a great example. I mean, really? Why? The other would be midichlorians. It's an explanation for something that didn't need to be explained.

    So that's one problem with Episode 1, for me.

    The other is that it's simply a bad film in terms of script, story and characterisation. I'm a huge fan of the Mr Plinkett video reviews of the prequels - if you're not familiar with them, set aside a couple of hours and watch the one for Episode 1:



    The humour may or may not land for you (I find it funny), but it's full of insightful points about why the film is a failure on the most basic storytelling levels. Try and describe Mace Windu without saying what he looks like or what his job is. Go on. I dare you.

    Here's another video that does a very adequate job of explaining why Phantom Menace is a failure - and this one is from the great George himself. Yup, it's the official DVD Making Of featurette:



    If you only watch one part, the conversation between Lucas and Spielberg that runs for a couple of minutes from 9:25 is pretty good. Not only does George describe how the droids that are the main enemy in the film are 'pretty useless' while Spielberg messes dispassionately with one of their arms, they conclude with the following exchange:

    Spielberg: Oh, that's gonna be great
    Lucas: Oh it'll be great
    Spielberg: Yup it'll be great
    Lucas: It'll be great

    Not sure who they were trying to convince with that one.

    The featurette also shows Lucas striding into rooms full of terrified staff who have developed models of various characters for him to evaluate. Certainly an interesting insight into the creative process for this film. They stand in absolute silence as he picks them up and pokes at them, like Alan Partridge judging onions at a village fete...



    Here's my last thing - the featurette also shows the rehearsals for the lightsabre battles. Now, the people who did these were clearly very capable, skilled people. No one can knock these people's ability to balletically pull off all sorts of complicated choreographed moves.

    Here's my thing though: I hated that ****. First of all there's too much of it (and Episode II is even worse for this, with thousands of sabre-wielding Jedi running at each other in pitched battles), instead of the sabre stuff being saved up for the most dramatic, climactic moments. Secondly because it lacks tension for me. It feels like a choreographed dance. When Luke was fighting Vader, and Palpatine was looking on, man he was going IN. He was just WHALING on Vader. No complicated dancing about. Real emotion. That was thrilling. I don't get that from the lightsabre scenes in Episode 1. Likewise, Obi Wan getting cut down in the original film. That's a magic moment right there. And at no point did anyone do a backflip.

    Anyway, I hate the Phantom Menace but I'm kind of fascinated by it.
    Last edited by wakka; 16-04-2021 at 01:01 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by wakka View Post
    I remember watching this vid (as one long film) years ago with my work buddies and loving it "but wayyyyyyt" . Very funny and also very smart. It nails everything wrong with it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Neon Ignition View Post
    Star Trek: Nemesis had an okay council scene, but mostly because everyone gets killed within the opening 4 minutes
    Also the worst Star Trek movie. We may be onto something...

  8. #28
    Adywans release of Star Wars is my regular go to now. Itís so much better than the original release, which I havenít been back too for years.

  9. #29
    Movie 02 - Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
    I think this one might well have the worst title of all the films, it not only sounds daft but has absolutely zero intrigue to it. Hell, it actively cuts through any, acting more like a four word description of the plot before you go in. Here we rejoin Anakin years later as a full grown man trying to round out his jedi training as the council remains wary of his path. Also possibly the most meme'd entry in the prequels, this film not only shows the turn of Anakin but also the long speculated about origins of the Clone Wars.



    In the light of where we are now, what works and doesn't work in the prequel trilogies sophomore entry?

  10. #30
    This is a really bad film. I think it's a more consistently poor film than Phantom Menace even though I think Phantom Menace has lower lows. This film commits the crime of being boring. The overuse of CG becomes much more apparent here and so, generally, I think the film looks worse than the previous movie and has aged really badly visually. Anakin is totally unlikeable as a character. I didn't buy his relationship with Padme and some of the dialogue is unbelieveably bad. And as Asura mentioned earlier, there are weird plot things just dropped in that are never followed up. It's boring and messy.

    The Jango Fett fight in the rain was pretty cool. And those sonic charges or whatever they were - those were incredible. Actually one area where the prequels need recognition is in the sound. So much of the sound is fantastic in these movies. Christopher Lee was great, although that only served to highlight how messy the film is - they totally squandered him.

    It's a bad movie.

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