Retro|Spective 061: Sonic the Hedgehog

[Leon Retro]

doubling down on stuff like the Knuckles levels etc was a pain. Hell, it's often the not-Sonic stuff that's the worst.

Yeah, both Sonic Adventure games should have been more refined. Making them flow better would have been the best option. There are some really annoying things that spoil what could be totally fun experiences.

[Dogg Thang]

I think part of that is feeling like they wouldn't have enough game without that padding. Like when they made the Nights sequel on the Wii - the padding and veering from what was a short play format worked against it rather than for it. Or when Namco chucked just about everything into Soul Calibur, losing focus on the core game. It feels like it's about game time and the fear that they'll be criticised in reviews for a short experience.

For me, I'll always prefer short but better.

[Asura]

Mania was strong but unless that team stays on the biggest future indicator is Forces...

Yeah, I've gotta admit, I have no idea where the franchise should go next.

Both Mania and Forces kinda have the same problem, even though they are wildly different games. Both double-down on fan service and fan appeal; the difference is that Mania, I would say, is an objectively good game, whereas Forces is an objectively bad one.

You could certainly do a Mania 2. I would like that. I think it's diminishing returns; it won't quite have the splash of the first game, but it at least will do well. The biggest problem it faces is that its identity lies in streamlining Sonic back to its core elements, and that's hard to build upon. Certainly there are fans who would buy another 3 Mania games (and I'm one of them) but they need to be careful not to run it into the ground.

A follow-up to Forces, however, simply wouldn't work. Forces is like a big joke; it was laughably fun when played, putting aside the many issues the game had (it's quite telling with how easy it was; it was clear that Sonic Team massacred the difficulty to make the game a glitchy breeze rather than a frustrating mess). The whole avatar thing had a very strong appeal to a segment of the fanbase, and I think Sonic Team understood that. But like a joke, its novelty wears off quickly.

I would go back to Mania, but have no intention of revisiting Forces.

[Leon Retro]

For me, I'll always prefer short but better.

I much prefer the arcade design philosophy that is all about 'less is more', so everything is streamlined to make things purely fun without needless headache-inducing filler. Sega should have known better with the Sonic Adventure games. If they'd streamlined things, they could be far more satisfying, despite being shorter games.

[Asura]

I much prefer the arcade design philosophy that is all about 'less is more', so everything is streamlined to make things purely fun without needless headache-inducing filler. Sega should have known better with the Sonic Adventure games. If they'd streamlined the experience, it could be far more satisfying, despite being a shorter game.

I totally agree that it could've been a better game, absolutely - though I wonder if it would've achieved as much as it has.

Sonic became a big brand for Sega and I think Adventure's sprawling elements were part of that. The games carved out a universe with their spoken characters which, love them or hate them, were a big part of what made Sonic Heroes the big success that it was (the game sold over 5 million copies purely on disc for PS2/Xbox/GC). Unleashed enjoyed a similar level of success. Even Sonic '06 sold four or five million physical copies alone.

I think kids loved the range of characters, even if the gameplay wasn't polished for them.

[Leon Retro]

Sonic became a big brand for Sega and I think Adventure's sprawling elements were part of that.

I would say Sonic's popularity peaked with the Mega Drive games -- and then maybe saw a bit of a resurgence during the PS2 era with the GBA and DS Sonic games. I don't think the Adventure games caught on enough to be a big thing with young gamers, mainly because they were only available for the niche Dreamcast console at the time of release.

Sega should have refined both Adventure games for the PS2, because I think a double pack might have grabbed attention on Sony's incredibly popular machine.

[importaku]

It should have ended at sonic & knuckles, Sonic would have then been fondly remembered as a series of fantastic platorming games. Unfortunately there's more trash than treasure in the full sonic lineup. For every one half decent Sonic game theres an army of turds to go with it.

The lock on technology was a fantastic bit of quirkyness easily rivalling Nintendos level of interesting gimmicks.

[Dogg Thang]

I feel the lock on was flawed and never really fixed. The issue with it is that it only activates at a very specific distance and was camera specific so, when the speeds went up, the game could sabotage you. If the camera shifted, which it tended to regularly during the Adventure to Heroes time, you’d miss your lock on and plummet to your death. That was particularly frustrating with Heroes. If a move is going to be camera specific, your automatic camera has to be really good. Sonic never had that but threw speed into the mix too.

[importaku]

Hehe no, i meant the cartridge lock on technology that let 2 games interface together. It was a fantastic idea that Sega used, breathing life into your older sonic games.

[Dogg Thang]

Oh! I got that totally wrong. Sorry! Yes, you’re right. That was superb. Disregard my woefully misguided comment.

[Asura]

Oh! I got that totally wrong. Sorry! Yes, you’re right. That was superb. Disregard my woefully misguided comment.

It’s emblematic though - even on that level, Sonic means such different things to the two of you that you had that little misunderstanding.

[Neon Ignition]

It all went wrong when they started calling Robotnik Eggman in the west
Given Colors did well and is one of the better received ones it's a shame it's remained Wii exclusive to this day.

But in terms of Sonic's future, no doubt 3D Sonic isn't going anywhere but it would be a massive mistake to ignore the reasons why Mania did so well. I feel it'd be too easy for them to think it's success doesn't apply because it was a 2D throwback entry but so much of the game speaks to the old senses without dismissing the newer elements. Drop the real world nonsense, make it Mobius set, stop repeating old themes as they evoke bad memories or poor comparisons against superior ones and focus the game more on building on what has been well liked from past efforts rather throw everything out each time.


For next time:
Clue - Louisiana, the Twenties, Alone...

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, for the games I want I completely agree with this. Mania is the first Sonic game in years that I felt was actually great. But Asura made a really good point a page ago - for all the stuff I don't like and the jankiness of the games, the character-filled 3D Sonics really gave them a huge boost across other forms and, somehow, resonated with a lot of kids who seem to love the characters. So many of the comics, TV shows and licensed stuff seemed to take off because of all those things that didn't really work for me in the games. So even when a game is critically a failure, they still ship units and, possibly more importantly, boost the Sonic brand beyond the games themselves. So I reckon we'll likely see them continuing that rather than capitalising on how good Sonic Mania is.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I'm amazed that Sega haven't bothered to work with the fandevs responsible for building Sonic Utopia in the same way that they did with Taxman for Mania.

[Asura]

I'm amazed that Sega haven't bothered to work with the fandevs responsible for building Sonic Utopia in the same way that they did with Taxman for Mania.

Yeah, Sega have a complicated relationship with fan projects. A lot of publishers do, I guess.

I get part of the issue; fan projects can't always be easily "brought in-house". Christian Whitehead's stuff was an exception, I think, because it was extremely polished. A lot of fan games are great at doing all the fun stuff, but they often fall down at all of the mundane stuff which a videogame actually needs to be a polished product (areas like QA, localisation, platform compliance) and if a lot of people have worked on a project, it can be difficult to know the provenance of every sprite or every sound effect which is present in the game.

However, when Sega did that cease-and-desist over that Streets of Rage fan project, I was really surprised, because it seems like the c&d kinda came like a bolt from the blue (heh, literally, in this case) - whereas a more "empowered" community liaison officer would've at least met with the team and performed due dilligence to find out if the game could be salvaged into an actual Sega-branded release.

But then, it's Sega. The phrase "the right hand doesn't know..." doesn't even start to summarise the weird, ongoing war they seem to have been fighting with themselves since the 90s.