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**Dogg Thang** · 16-10-2018, 13:37

That's a lot of Sonics. I still love the originals. 1, 2 and 3 are wonderful and still hold up for me. They play great, hadn't fallen into that trap of thinking Sonic is only speed and nothing more, have some really good platforming and a gorgeous world and feel. I think they peaked with Sonic 3, which felt just a touch more inventive and polished than the previous two (looked and sounded gorgeous too), with Sonic & Knuckles being a little more repetitive although still very enjoyable.

But after that bad things happened.

I must admit I quite enjoy Sonic Adventure and it looked amazing back in its day. Replaying some of it recently, it's still good fun but suffers from camera issues which were common back then and also it struggled for gameplay beyond the Sonic running stages. Sonic Adventure 2 was pretty much the same only losing the hubworlds which I really enjoyed from the first one. Also I have memories of being bored searching for crystal bits.

Sonic Heroes was where I declared myself out. I loved the idea but found it to be a horrible, horrible game. There are only so many times I can fall through the ground before chucking a game. So I missed a whole bunch of Sonics after that and, since then, only played some of the handhelds (Advance wasn't bad but they got progressively worse from there) and also Generations which wasn't terrible either.

But then we got Sonic Mania and I love it. It's true to the originals while adding so many neat tricks and a layer of polish. It's a bit of an unbalanced experience but made with passion and it delivered exactly what I wanted it to. It's like new old Sonic and that's just what I wanted.

**Neon Ignition** · 16-10-2018, 13:47

It's massively list heavy as a post too, I had to cut loads I'd typed as it exploded the character count

**Atticus** · 16-10-2018, 14:08

The music and chequerboard loops make me feel nostalgic but the games don't really do anything for me. The GameGear one was okay I suppose ... wasn't a big fan other than that.

**vanpeebles** · 16-10-2018, 14:21

Originally posted by Atticus View Post

The music and chequerboard loops make me feel nostalgic but the games don't really do anything for me. The GameGear one was okay I suppose ... wasn't a big fan other than that.

Piano player lurches to a halt, while everyone else in saloon turns and stares.

**Asura** · 16-10-2018, 14:21

Sonic is a weird franchise.

I'm not sure how I came to know if it as a kid. I can't remember discovering it as such, despite how it started within my lifetime. However, it was a very consistent part of my childhood; other crazes came and went, but I always liked the Sonic videogames, Sonic the Comic and the TV show (the second, darker one). What I do remember was that Sonic 3 was one of the highlights of my gaming childhood; I recall playing it in Comet and being super-excited about it. My parents agreed to buy it for me if I managed to do well in a term at school, and I did, so they bought it - this in itself was unusual. Megadrive games were expensive so I rarely got "new" titles, and even then, I would only usually get them for birthdays or Christmas.

As a result, many people consider Sonic 2 as the apex of the franchise, but I've always been more partial to 3, as everything about it provokes a sense of nostalgia. I also loved how it expanded the narrative of the series, with little cutscenes that gave the characters a bit more identity (rather than the prior games where the bulk of the story was in the manual). It's also worth saying here that I never got to play CD as a kid (not until a much later re-release).

I'm not gonna lie; when the Saturn was on the horizon and I had to choose between that and the PS1, the idea that there would be an awesome Sonic game on the platform was a big part of what swayed me over to Sega. Other titles like Daytona and Virtua Fighter helped, but this as-yet-unseen Sonic game was certainly a draw. Of course, that game would never materialise, but we had no way of knowing that then.

So then we move onto the schism. I think, if I'm honest, that Sonic is like several franchises, as opposed to just one. You have the original games, in which I would probably include Mania, as well as spinoffs like Chaos and Triple Trouble. Then you have Sonic Adventure and everything that takes its cues from that game. I think the fanbase is split on this, because some people love Adventure, while some see it as symbolic of everything that went wrong with the franchise.

While I can't defend Adventure as an objectively good game (because it really isn't), I also won't lie - I loved it at the time and I still have a strange fondness for it now. After owning a Saturn for much of its life, and being disappointed that Sega never gave us a proper Saturn Sonic game, finally seeing it arrive at my local import shop, even with the incomprehensively Japanese cutscenes, was something special. It rode a nostalgia boon that completely blinded me to the obvious problems it had. I played that first boss level loads of times, which in the original Japanese version was, to be frank, an unplayable mess. Then of course there were all the questions of why Sonic was running around in a semi-realistic city setting, that would fire off the initial discovery for some fans (myself included) that to the Japanese, Sonic had always taken place in ostensibly Earth/the real world.

So I loved Adventure. I eventually bought a Dreamcast and played it to death, completing it multiple times. Ditto for 2, though I would play the most of that on the GameCube.

Hell, I even got a lot of play out of Shuffle.

So when people complain about Sonic becoming something it's not with Adventure, I question that. Weirdly, Sonic Forces understands this more than any other title in the franchise, because Sonic Forces is the Sonic game that only existed in my head when I was eight years old - where I could be my own Sonic-themed character, and go on adventures with those heroes, being instrumental in their victories. I think Forces understood it almost too well, if I'm honest, to the game's detriment. Not everything can fly on nostalgia alone. This makes me wonder if a big dividing line in the fandom might be between those who were adults when the original games came out, and those who were still kids like myself. As kids playing Sonic, our imagination filled in the blanks of Sonic's world, whereas I suspect a more adult player would take the game as presented and consider that definitive.

I kinda lost it around Heroes, and there were some real mis-steps. The "Storybook" sub-series, '06, and the continued failure to make a good Sonic racing game (I loved the Sumo ones, but they were good MarioKart-style games - I mean one in which the characters actually run).

But there were some surprises. I loved Rush (even if it led into the abysmal Rush Adventure), and the Advance games were fun. Even the weird Sonic Battle on GBA was novel, if not amazing.

I have yet to play Colors, though I hear good things. I liked Generations and I love Mania - the latter being pretty important, as I think it reminded many how those original games were such fun. Plus I recommend Freedom Planet if you guys haven't played it, which was one of the Sonic fan games that was sort-of competing to be what Mania would later become.

Suspect I might have kicked the hornet's nest with some of that. Still, interested to hear what others have to say!

**_SD_** · 16-10-2018, 17:16

I think Sonic Two-sday was the first really big hyped-up marketing campaign for a video game that I can remember... they had two dedicated Sega Busses at GamesMaster Live just running the demo competitions. I never really got into the first game at the time, but the sequel blew it away with all the extra gameplay elements and the introduction of Miles.

I’ve always preferred the Master System/Game Gear versions much more than the MD games though, the first is definitely better in glorious 8-Bit...

The Pocket entry is very good, although I’ve still never found all the jigsaw puzzle pieces that are scattered throughout the game. And I still have fond memories of discovering Fighters in Sega World one evening after a few beers and wondering WTF!?

**Asura** · 16-10-2018, 17:29

Originally posted by _SD_ View Post

I’ve always preferred the Master System/Game Gear versions much more than the MD games though, the first is definitely better in glorious 8-Bit...

I can never understand this. I get why people might like Chaos or Triple Trouble, but having played the MD Sonic 1&2, to me they just feel like a worse version of the Megadrive versions. The last time this came up, I seem to remember someone saying it was because they felt like more of a journey, or more like you were exploring - which seemed to boil down to how the first game had a non-interactive map which appeared between the zones.

**Arashikage** · 16-10-2018, 18:17

I'm more of a fan of the first Master System Sonic over the MD version, it just felt a lot more slowed down than it's bigger brother. This in itself sounds daft as Sonic is all about speed however the more slowed down pace allowed it to be more of a platform game rather than a rollercoaster ride. It's still my favourite Sonic game to this day, and that is saying a lot considering I'm not a fan of the character.

**CMcK** · 16-10-2018, 20:28

Sonic for me basically ceased to be after Sonic and Knuckles. Sonic was a breath of fresh air when it launched and really showcased the Megadrive. Especially the audio. I do prefer the MS version though.
Sonic 2 MD is the pinnacle of the series for me. Fast, huge levels, great art and catchy tunes.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles slows things down a bit in favour of more exploration and is an excellent addition to the series. Having new characters and abilities to explore helped keeped it fresh too.

After that Sonic seemed to fare better on handheld with Sonic Advance and the NGP outing.

Back on consoles it just went downhill until the ok Sonic 4 and Generations. It was the inability of the developers to replicate the Sonic physics that hurt those games

Then last year was received Sonic Mania which is simply stunning and is the Sonic game the Saturn should have seen.

**DeathAdder** · 16-10-2018, 23:14

I like the first few games very much. I've bought a few others since then, most recently the Switch Sonic Mania Plus.

With the series being so up and down, though, there's always a bit of doubt when buying a Sonic game, as opposed to buying a Mario game where the quality has always ranged from incredible to very good at the worst (NSMB) - the platformers and kart racers anyway, not the sports games.

**Leon Retro** · 17-10-2018, 05:08

I remember how amazing the original Sonic was on the Mega Drive -- it really showed me how great the MD tech is. It also put into perspective how weak a lot of MD games are in the graphics and sound departments. I think after Sonic appeared -- it woke developers up and helped to raise standards to a much higher level. The benchmark for MD games was far higher after Sonic appeared.

Whenever I go back to Sonic 1 - and that's fairly often - I am always stunned by how much craft went into the graphics, sound, and overall design. It really is a masterpiece that never ages.

After that -- I liked Sonic 2 and played it enough for it to become one of my favourite MD games. Then I remember getting Sonic 3 and didn't like it very much -- there was something dull and stale about it.

So I went off Sonic games until Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast, which was an impressive, fun game. But it did have frustrating elements that annoyed me. Sonic Racing and Transformed are great arcade racers on the 360 -- I highly recommend them.

**Neon Ignition** · 17-10-2018, 09:01

One thing I should probably clarify with this one and should have from the outset, for anyone wondering why so many Sonic games are missing, is that some series like this and Mario etc are so sprawling that the thread becomes impossible to manage. Here I've held focus on the platforming roots of the franchise whilst a futher thread/s would cover non-platforming entries at a later date.

With me, it was always about the MD Sonic's, the 8-bit versions never felt as good to me, and I came in on Sonic 1 sometime after its launch so it was more stumbled upon but ahead of the hype for the second game. Green Hill Zone was endlessly fun to play through, it just pained me as a kid that Marble and Labyrinth followed (especially anytime Sonic goes underwater)... that Starlight Zone theme though... je t'aime

Sonic 2 doesn't need much saying, it was all about this game back in the day. By the time Sonic 3 hit it felt like too much attention was on the impending new systems and it didn't feel that hyped to me but I can't lie, I kind of prefer it of the trilogy and it looks lovely. That should make Sonic & Knuckles a slam dunk but I don't know why but it's always left me feeling fairly cold to it.

It was a while later before I'd be able to try out Sonic CD, I appreciate that game in many ways but again - it feels like a bit of a regression from S2 and 3. Sonic 4 is such an odd one, Ep1 looks odd and has its design issues, Ep2 isn't perfect but it is better and is fairly serviceable. Mania pretty much steps in as its replacement but if Sega ever tries to make a follow up I'd like the A>B routes of just running through it to be a little more streamlined for my tastes as I never like Sonic when it slows your pace too much as the physics have never suited exploration gameplay and for them to finally abandon repurposing Sonic 2 visual themes. Mania 2 should boldly stand as distinct as what would I guess be Sonic the Hedgehog 6 at this point?

Adventure, it was a flawed game that time makes even more flawed. I think much of the love comes from the rollercoaster type levels. Sometimes things just click in the game and what was intended shines through like the level that takes place in a tornado, completed without snagging on walls etc it's a blast. Adventure 2 is much the same, so much subpar content but the race to the space rocket level or the opening City Escape are too much fun even if physical gameplay is a minimum.

So many others like Heroes, Forces, Shadow etc were a mess. Secret Rings was okay I thought, nothing special but it and Black Knight looked good for the Wii and as spin-offs there's been worse. Generations was okay but it's lesser than the peaks of both 2D and 3D Sonic. Unleashed's Sonic levels were okay, the others not so much. Colors comes closest to nailing it but what amazes most is that Sonic Team will have a Sonic game come out that's a financial success and considered an improvement and then not make a sequel to it instead making another iteration that's rubbish. Their utter failure to learn from past efforts and mistakes is mindboggling.

Generations was okay and was 7 years ago, Colors was better and a year older than that. Honestly, Puyo aside the last 15 years output within and without this franchise remain a solid argument that they're not a great home for the Hedgehog. Mania was strong but unless that team stays on the biggest future indicator is Forces...

**Leon Retro** · 17-10-2018, 09:14

Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post

Adventure 2 is much the same, so much subpar content but the race to the space rocket level or the opening City Escape are too much fun even if physical gameplay is a minimum.

I really like Sonic Adventure 2. It has issues, but overall it's a lot of uplifting fun. I remember being really impressed with the graphics back in the day. I think I'll play it the next time I have my Dreamcast set up.

**Neon Ignition** · 17-10-2018, 09:23

It's a shame they never focused themselves properly for Sonic Adventure 2, doubling down on stuff like the Knuckles levels etc was a pain. Hell, it's often the not-Sonic stuff that's the worst.

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