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i3-4330T or i5-3570S - For emulation?

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    i3-4330T or i5-3570S - For emulation?

    I'm trying to choose between these processors for emulation. It will be in a tiny computer.

    i3-4330T - Intel HD Graphics 4600

    i5-3570s - Intel HD Graphics 2500

    I will be relying on the onboard Intel graphics -- is there a big difference between the two?

    The i3 runs at 3.0GHz(no Turbo mode) ; the i5 2.9GHz(3.8GHz in Turbo mode)

    I can't decide if the i3's newer onboard graphics will make a big difference, or if the higher Turbo speed of the i5 is the better option, despite the onboard graphics being quite archaic.

    Which one would you go for when it comes to emulating machines up to the PS2?
    Last edited by Leon Retro; 27-02-2019, 16:45.

    #2
    i5 has more cores, no brainer.

    Edit: Oh, no GPU. Wouldn’t recommend either then.

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      #3
      Isn’t gpu largely irrelevant for emulation up to gamecube?

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        #4
        Originally posted by speedlolita View Post

        Edit: Oh, no GPU. Wouldn’t recommend either then.
        It's a very tiny computer, so can't have a graphics card. I can't work out if Intel HD 4600 onboard graphics is much better than Intel HD 2500. The i5 has a far better clock speed in Turbo mode. So I'm trying to weigh things up.

        Originally posted by Brad View Post
        Isn’t gpu largely irrelevant for emulation up to gamecube?
        Well, I'm sure that Intel onboard graphics wouldn't be a problem for most emulation. Some guy on YouTube reckons Intel HD Graphics 4600 is fine for GameCube emulation.

        Obviously I need to weight up what's more important -- clock speed or newer onboard graphics.

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          #5
          For emulation it’s clock speed. Every time.

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            #6
            Or more specifically, single threaded performance.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Brad View Post
              For emulation it’s clock speed. Every time.
              I just need to work out if 3.0GHz is more than adequate, with the benefit of better onboard graphics, or go for the i5 that's 3.8GHz in Turbo mode but has less powerful onboard graphics. I'm trying to weigh things up before deciding what to go for.

              Originally posted by gunrock View Post
              Or more specifically, single threaded performance.
              Looking at comparison charts, the i5 runs a bit faster single threaded. It's just the weaker onboard graphics that's a worry.

              I can't find any info that suggests Intel HD Graphics 2500 would be sufficient for emulating most machines up to the GameCube. People have said the Intel HD Graphics 4600 can do the job.

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                #8
                If you want juicy CRT shaders you'll need a GPU.

                If you want authentic lag-free gaming you'll need to activate run ahead inside Retro Arch which eats up an absolute ton of resources.

                I spent three years trying to reach emulation perfection and in the end went back to real hardware. Not only do you need the grunt, but you need to spend considerable time within Retro Arch configuring everything. Now with run ahead you need to configure each game independently... It just wasn't worth my time.

                I wouldn't listen to what anyone online says, either. Everyone has different levels of expectancy. Some people require 100% perfection (me), yet others will tell you that their 20 year-old Pentium II can emulate SNES stuff perfectly fine. How do you even begin to sum up that term, "perfectly fine"? Something is either perfect, or it's just 'fine'. I guess "Perfectly fine" means it's the most perfect form of 'fine' attainable. Do you want to go this distance for 'fine' emulation? Don't spend all this time and money on building something with considerable power only to end up with a rather large Raspberry Pi.

                Do you have a Pi already? If not I'd start with one of those, if only to ensure you have the patience for tinkering and being content with a non-perfect game. Pi's are more than up to the job for most people, but not everyone is most people - certainly not enthusiasts.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by dataDave View Post
                  If you want juicy CRT shaders you'll need a GPU.
                  I don't want to use any shaders or even use a high resolution. I have a VGA scanline generator for 640x480, so I'll probably use that.


                  Originally posted by dataDave View Post
                  How do you even begin to sum up that term, "perfectly fine"? Something is either perfect, or it's just 'fine'. I guess "Perfectly fine" means it's the most perfect form of 'fine' attainable.
                  For me it's all about feeling the emulation is authentic enough without any obvious issues that bother me. What I've noticed with emulators, is it's not always about the hardware being an issue, but more to do with an emulator not being very good. So I know that some machines haven't been emulated well enough to deliver a truly authentic experience. No amount of computing power is going to make an N64 emulator run every game properly.

                  Originally posted by dataDave View Post
                  Do you have a Pi already? If not I'd start with one of those, if only to ensure you have the patience for tinkering and being content with a non-perfect game. Pi's are more than up to the job for most people, but not everyone is most people - certainly not enthusiasts.
                  I have a Pi 3B and think it emulates a lot of 8 & 16-bit hardware really well. It can also run some 32-bit games well enough to be satisfying.

                  When it comes to buying a tiny PC, I just want something reasonably powerful to tinker with. I don't want a large form PC because I already have a few, so it's all about having a tiny form factor with far more power than a Pi. I also don't want to spend much money, so I'm going for something quite cheap. It's a choice between the two processors above, with no option for an additional graphics card. The big dilemma is whether to go for newer onboard graphics, or a higher Turbo clock speed. I don't know which will suit my needs best?
                  Last edited by Leon Retro; 28-02-2019, 00:26.

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                    #10
                    I haven't dabbled in emulation recently beyond my AMD APU, RPi or OG Xbox but I thought PS2 emulation at least does benefit or need a GPU. I've seen videos on Youtube making the point that Open GL or Vulkan based emulation performance is greatly improved by a GPU.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Digfox View Post
                      I've seen videos on Youtube making the point that Open GL or Vulkan based emulation performance is greatly improved by a GPU.
                      I decided on the i3. I noticed that people on the Dolphin emulator forum said that the 'i3-4330' is really good for that particular emulator. I also saw benchmarks that show the onboard Intel HD Graphics 4600 is double the power of the older HD Graphics 2500.

                      I know it's not a lot of power to play with, but it's a tiny 7" x 7" computer so I know the GPU can't be great. I'm just interested to see if it will emulate at least everything up to the PS1 well enough to be convincing. There is a chance it will run PCSX2 and Dolphin if I just go for the standard/basic settings.

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                        #12
                        You can run decent shaders on a Shield now. All the ones on my 4.5ghz i7 gaming PC run on the shield thanks to Vulkan so GPU isn't much of a consideration unless you want to run at higher res'. That said Dolphin and Demul will run at 720p fine on a shield and 1080p is generally fine too. On my PC with a 1060 it's great for high-res and texture packs on Dolphin and the DC stuff.

                        Regarding cores it's largely based on single thread speed. Other than PCSX2 (and possibly CEMU?) the emulator won't care how many cores the CPU has. I've filmed a couple of videos I've linked before which shows a cheap £70 Optiplex running everything up to PS2 and Gamecube pretty much perfectly with an old 1gb Radeon. In fact the new PC I've built uses a similar spec and cost £70 shipped. It will run everything I need in my Astro cab perfectly.

                        Regarding run-ahead, it took about a day or so on my gaming desktop but got most things running pretty much exact, in most cases tighter than the original board. I wouldn't say I'm an expert but have done several board to pc comparisons and I've noticed minor lag on original hardware. I'm sure some people will dispute this but I've found it to be true in some instances. I guess it depends, as DataDave says, what you are after. I don't necessarily want cycle-perfect emulation for everything. I just want some fun playing games, but you may be different. I think shaders are ace and really add to the experience, but you do need to spend a significant amount of time with Retroarch to know the ins and outs. I've done several varying setups now and chat to hunterk who works on RA and still face some odd things once in a while. I find RA works almost back to front compared to most emulators and you probably need to spend a good 3-4 days really getting to grips with what you can and can't do. In most cases I would set up a new instance of Retroarch for each emulator, just to limit issues.
                        Last edited by Escape-To-88; 01-03-2019, 07:50.
                        3DS FC (updated 2015): 0447-8108-3129

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                          #13
                          Some games were coded with input latency purposely ingrained. Super Mario World has three frames, I think. With run-ahead you can eliminate all of that, although you'd then be going against developer intention I imagine.

                          All games have different values in this department, which is why each game needs configuring individually.

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                            #14
                            Can you adjust run ahead so that it anticipates your inputs before you do?

                            I would be curious to see how that performs with Third Strike, the arcade feels like it has zero input latency built in by design.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by dataDave View Post

                              All games have different values in this department, which is why each game needs configuring individually.
                              This is true of course, but do you really notice between games? It's a genuine question, not meant to sound like a dig! I find 2, occasionally 3, is fine for general use and then have certain games (mainly ones I love) set up more specifically. I can't imagine anyone having the need to set up 200 games for example entirely correctly. Even then the intros tend to run slightly out of sync from real hardware.
                              3DS FC (updated 2015): 0447-8108-3129

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