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Retro Arena: 32-bit era consoles

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    Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
    Imagine if the Saturn had launched with Sega Rally.:
    Imagine no 32X cock up. Without the 32X The Saturn would have launched with Star Wars Arcade, Panzer Dragoon, VF/Remix, Doom (made by id) Daytona USA and Virtual Racing Delux.

    Instead of Virtua Fighter, Sega should have been developing a texture mapped fighter for Western tastes
    To be fair SEGA were with Remix and I have no idea in the USA, but Virutal Fighter was a free box in game for Saturn in the UK . I get the price, but as the PS3 showed, you can overcome having a system that's hard to programe for, multi CPU's, that costs loads and not the best GPU (all issues used to bash the Saturn)

    The trouble was SEGA was just so unfocused on one system and forget about blaming the press or SONY Ect. It was really SEGA who screwd it up mostly

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      Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
      Imagine no 32X cock up. Without the 32X The Saturn would have launched with Star Wars Arcade, Panzer Dragoon, VF/Remix, Doom (made by id) Daytona USA and Virtual Racing Delux.
      I think we should all imagine the 32X had never existed. Heaven.

      That's despite some people saying they bought a 32X and liked some of its game. I think that's irrelevant next to how it took focus away from Sega's 32-bit console. Sega having its best people pissing around with all sorts of things was just a big mess.

      Sony had the big advantage of focusing on one machine and making sure it ticked all the boxes with developers and gamers.



      Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
      To be fair SEGA were with Remix and I have no idea in the USA, but Virutal Fighter was a free box in game for Saturn in the UK .
      I am a bit biased, because I prefer Tekken, but I think a lot of gamers in Europe and America favoured Tekken over Virtua Fighter. I'm,sure that VF really impressed people when it first appeared in arcades. But Namco managed to create a texture mapped fighter that really felt easy to get to grips with and also ran really well. Tekken is definitely a very mainstream fighter that even your Grandma could get some fun out of. Virtua Fighter demands more concentration and timing etc...


      Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
      I get the price, but as the PS3 showed, you can overcome having a system that's hard to programe for, multi CPU's, that costs loads and not the best GPU (all issues used to bash the Saturn)
      When the gaming world is looking on and Sega says "$399" and Sony says "$299" -- it really was a shocking moment in gaming that really helped win hearts and minds in favour of Sony. Sega being a top dog in gaming should never have allowed Sony to have that advantage. It was one of the biggest mistakes Sega made with the Saturn.

      The PS3 was very much like the Saturn. Its architecture is more complicated than its rival, so lots of developers always preferred the 360. Sony priced the PS3 too high at first. It also didn't have an ideal launch lineup. But after a while, developers who focused on the PS3 managed to show off the tech. Unfortunately for the Saturn, gamers saw no reason to give it a second chance after the launch period problems.


      Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
      The trouble was SEGA was just so unfocused on one system and forget about blaming the press or SONY Ect. It was really SEGA who screwd it up mostly
      We definitely can't blame Sony for anything that happened to Sega. The company did a great job of toppling Sega and creating a strong brand. I'm not a Sony fanboy, far from it, but I fully respect what an incredible job Sony did with their first console.

      I actually think it's a huge shame that Sega failed with the Saturn. I really wish the architecture had been easier to get to grips with, as it would have benefited Sega's early first-party games, and also helped get devs onboard. The architecture being quite makeshift really held the machine back and added to the negativity because lots of devs were openly saying how much nicer - and easier to use - the PlayStation's hardware was. So gamers would have felt bombarded with pro-PlayStation sentiment from all quarters.
      Last edited by Leon Retro; 22-03-2019, 16:53.

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        Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
        I think we should all imagine the 32X had never existed. Heaven. .
        Yeah lol

        When the gaming world is looking on and Sega says "$399" and Sony says "$299" -- it really was a shocking moment in gaming that really helped win hearts and minds in favour of Sony
        Not quite up there with SONY $599 moment though.

        I am a bit biased, because I prefer Tekken
        I'm not the biggest fan of either to be honest. I liked Capcom's 2D fighters far more and so much rather play Soul Edge or Last Bronx when it came to 32Bit 3D fighters

        We definitely can't blame Sony for anything that happened to Sega
        I blame the idiots at SEGA America and Europe at the time of the Saturn. It got worse with the DC in Europe with the idiots at SEGA Europe during the time of the DC

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          Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
          I'm not the biggest fan of either to be honest. I liked Capcom's 2D fighters far more and so much rather play Soul Edge or Last Bronx when it came to 32Bit 3D fighters
          I really liked Tekken and its sequels. They're really fun to just pick up and play. Also, it was great how Namco pushed the hardware further with each game. Tekken 3 blew me away.

          Soul Edge was easily my favourite fighter from that era though. I loved everything about it. Last Bronx is really good and did impressive things with the hardware.


          Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
          I blame the idiots at SEGA America and Europe at the time of the Saturn. It got worse with the DC in Europe with the idiots at SEGA Europe during the time of the DC
          Idiots definitely brought down Sega as a player in the console market. It's a shame that the company still hasn't managed to come back strong. I expect more from Sega when it comes to games.
          Last edited by Leon Retro; 22-03-2019, 18:54.

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            Here's my Top 5 for each machine:

            PlayStation

            1. Harmful Park
            2. Gunner's Heaven
            3. Ridge Racer
            4. R-Type Delta
            5. Einhander

            Saturn

            1. Radiant Silvergun
            2. Soukyugurentai
            3. Sega Rally
            4. Panzer Dragoon Zwei
            5. Astal

            N64

            1. Wave Race 64
            2. F-Zero X
            3. Star Fox 64
            4. Diddy Kong Racing
            5. Pilotwings 64

            What are your Top 5 games for any of these systems?

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              Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post

              1. Radiant Silvergun
              2. Soukyugurentai
              3. Sega Rally
              4. Panzer Dragoon Zwei
              5. Astal
              It's interesting that you rate Astal so highly. I just completed it for the first time at the weekend and I ended up being quite disappointed. There's no denying that it looks level, but I found most of the levels to be very dull to play through. The platforming isn't the best either as he feels a little too floaty to control in places. I really did love the boss fights, mind. Some of them are fantastic, making good use of Astal's abilities.

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                I've never understood the love for Panzer Dragon Saga. There, I said it.

                That being said I didn't play it at the time; I didn't get the chance until around ten years later, and it was pretty dated visually by then.

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                  PDS was like playing a premier RPG like FF7... but good

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                    PlayStation

                    1. Final Fantasy VII
                    2. Resident Evil 2
                    3. Tekken 3
                    4. Ridge Racer Revolution
                    5. Wip3out

                    Saturn

                    1. NiGHTS
                    2. Sega Rally
                    3. Virtua Fighter 2
                    4. Virtua Cop
                    5. Panzer Dragoon Zwei

                    N64

                    1. Perfect Dark
                    2. F-Zero X
                    3. Majora's Mask
                    4. Super Mario 64
                    5. Sin & Punishment

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                      Originally posted by Strider View Post
                      It's interesting that you rate Astal so highly. I just completed it for the first time at the weekend and I ended up being quite disappointed. There's no denying that it looks level, but I found most of the levels to be very dull to play through. The platforming isn't the best either as he feels a little too floaty to control in places. I really did love the boss fights, mind. Some of them are fantastic, making good use of Astal's abilities.
                      Makes me feel like swapping it for Keio Flying Squadron 2. I played through it the other day and really enjoyed myself.

                      But seriously, I've always had a soft spot for Astal. It's such a charming game with really distinctive graphics. I agree that it doesn't play as well as the best 2D platformers, but I don't mind. The levels can also feel a bit lacking and maybe ponderous, but I sort of like the pace. Overall, it has enough good points to go alongside the beautiful graphics to make it a fave of mine. It's certainly not up there with my favourite examples of the genre, but I have a lot of nostalgia and fondness for it.

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                        Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                        Keio Flying Squadron 2.
                        I loved this game so much. An underrated classic. In a way, games like this were a casualty to the move to 3D. It's like 2D platformer visuals went to a certain point but then stopped because focus went on 3D but Keio 2 looks and plays beautifully. It's a lot of fun.

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                          I’ve often wondered how different things would have been had Nintendo opted to go with CDs over the limited storage of expensive cartridges. Especially if Square had continued with development of Final Fantasy VII for the system.

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                            Originally posted by dataDave View Post
                            PlayStation

                            3. Tekken 3

                            5. Wip3out
                            Both faves of mine. I remember how impressive they were back in the day.

                            Originally posted by dataDave View Post
                            Saturn

                            1. NiGHTS
                            NIGHTS is easily one of the best games from that era. I will never forget how magical it felt at the time. It would make my Top 10 Saturn games.

                            Originally posted by dataDave View Post
                            N64

                            5. Sin & Punishment
                            It's a shame it didn't come out much earlier and inspire other developers. It sort of feels like a PlayStation game but takes advantage of the N64 tech. Easily one of the best games for the system.

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                              Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                              I loved this game so much. An underrated classic. In a way, games like this were a casualty to the move to 3D. It's like 2D platformer visuals went to a certain point but then stopped because focus went on 3D but Keio 2 looks and plays beautifully. It's a lot of fun.
                              Yeah, it takes advantage of the Saturn tech. The sprite rotation and effects are still impressive. The developer really showed off how 32-bit tech could benefit a 2D game. Plus it's really well designed with a lot to enjoy. It's interesting how it got a Euro release with English voices.

                              I think the game should be re-released in some form for modern consoles, as I'm sure it would find an audience.

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                                Originally posted by _SD_ View Post
                                I’ve often wondered how different things would have been had Nintendo opted to go with CDs over the limited storage of expensive cartridges.
                                I wonder if using CD-ROM would have had a negative impact on Mario 64. I guess it would to some degree. There's no doubt that using CD would have attracted far more support for Nintendo's machine. As much as some games benefited from being on cartridge, it did put lots of publishers/devs off the machine.
                                Last edited by Leon Retro; 01-04-2019, 15:18.

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