Retro Arena: 32-bit era consoles

[Neon Ignition]

Sega had a good window of opportunity with Virtua Fighter given how it spearheaded 3D fighters and how Tekken took its time arriving. Form the perspective of home gamers though paying £40 for a game, Tekken made immensely more effort to be a rounded console experience making it much easier to dedicate time to even if you were only playing it casually whereas as VF was always delivered in a very bare boned manner. Sega never really understood those kinds of touches.

[Atticus]

I think Pilotwings 64 was my fav N64 game

Yeah, Pilotwings 64 is such a special game. Like most peeps I bought it along with Mario 64 when the console launched and PW stole much of the limelight. The jetpac/bouncing balls levels were just amazing.

I still have super fond memories of Ocarina of Time though. For me it was the gaming equivalent of reading Lord of the Rings. A proper landmark game.

[Strider]

I love the Saturn out of those three systems, but there's no denying Sega dropped the ball big time.

I don't think it was just one thing that stopped it from being a failure, but loads of little ones. The price was wrong right from the off, some may have been put off by earlier stop-gap machines, it simply didn't attract gamers in the way the PlayStation did, it lacked the in-depth games that began to dominate in the west, difficult to work with… the list goes on and on.

I've really started delving into the machine the last few months (outside of the many shooters I have) and there's a wealth of interesting titles outside of the many arcade ports.

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah, Pilotwings 64 is such a special game. Like most peeps I bought it along with Mario 64 when the console launched and PW stole much of the limelight. The jetpac/bouncing balls levels were just amazing.

I still have super fond memories of Ocarina of Time though. For me it was the gaming equivalent of reading Lord of the Rings. A proper landmark game.

I never liked Ocarina Of Time I just found the puzzles too hard and gave up at the tree puzzle.

Pilotwings 64 is one of the best games ever made on any system and for me the best on the N64. I loved it back in the day and still even now like to play it a couple of times a month. Goldeneye is another classic too, shotting the guard hat off, while he's having a poo never gets old. Plus the music in the game is incredible and one of the few N64 games that really had top quality music to rival that on the Saturn or PS.

Also, nothing beats playing N64 games on the original controller, it was crap for most styles of games, but for Nintendo and RARE games it comes into it's own

[Atticus]

Goldeneye is another classic too, shotting the guard hat off, while he's having a poo never gets old.

One of gaming's great moments

[Leon Retro]

With the Megadrive, Sega did a great job of appealing to teenage boys. They seemed to ignore that those teenage boys had now grown up (and that the current crop of teenagers would want to play the games their older brothers were into).

The Mega Drive - and especially the Genesis - also appealed to older 20+ gamers. It's important to remember how important all the sports games were for the Mega Drive/Genesis, especially in America.

So the clear evidence that the dodgy port of Daytona USA was instrumental in the Saturn's woeful sales - and overall negativity surrounding the machine in the West -- is highlighted by how the Saturn failed miserably in America; a territory that you'd think would have been eager to play Daytona USA in the home. But the reports of the port being quite weak -- and the high $399 price point of the machine -- must have turned lots of Sega followers off the machine.

I would think the Saturn would have sold like hot cakes if the Daytona had been far more refined/polished and had the media telling gamers it was an absolutely stunning port. When word got around that Daytona looked rough and felt choppy, it must have really created a sense of apathy towards the Saturn. Then on the other hand -- you had all the fanfare surrounding Ridge Racer and how it was an incredible port.

So as much as some people want to say the failure of the Saturn in the West was all down to the negativity carried on from the Mega-CD and 32X, I also think the less than stellar port of Daytona played a significant part in turning gamers off the machine.

I'm sure that lots of gamers saw all the hype surrounding PlayStation games like Ridge Racer and Tekken and decided that the press, in general, were sending out the message that the PlayStation was the 'must-have' machine next to the Saturn. Sony really owe Namco a lot for helping to create so much positivity for the PlayStation prior to launch and during the first year or so.

The funny thing is -- a few years later, Namco would provide a 'must-have' game[SoulCalibur] for Sega's Dreamcast. A game that created lots of positivity for the Sega's machine and convinced people to buy a one. But it wasn't enough to sway most gamers away from the idea that Sony's PS2 was worth waiting for. Once again, all the positivity surrounding the PlayStation brand would scupper Sega's chances to succeed.

[Team Andromeda]

The Mega Drive - and especially the Genesis - also appealed to older 20+ gamers. It's important to remember how important all the sports games were for the Mega Drive/Genesis, especially in America.

Yeah. SEGA made quite a think of appealing to the older 'male' gamer with no censorship to Mortal Kombat and LOL at Nintendo America moral campaign against games like Night Trap. Sport was also huge for SEGA with SEGA sponsoring football, The British GP and the F1 Williams team and the endless list of Mega Drive sports games endorsed by famous sports stars all inthe MD days

When word got around that Daytona looked rough and felt choppy, it must have really created a sense of apathy towards the Saturn. Then on the other hand -- you had all the fanfare surrounding Ridge Racer and how it was an incredible port.

Daytona USA should have been delayed and the car count cut to 16 imo. But it was a short term blimp imo Sega Rally more than made up for that and its funny how no one talks how much better looking VC was on the Saturn compared to Time Crisis. I think the real damage was SEGA West thinking that the 32X would sweep everything before it and when it didn't they had no plan B and SEGA lost many of its 3rd parties, retail support and even their own core group of gamers, who were promised the earth the 32X and got a system that was utter crap and a total nightmare to set up too

[Leon Retro]

Yeah. SEGA made quite a think of appealing to the older 'male' gamer with no censorship to Mortal Kombat and LOL at Nintendo America moral campaign against games like Night Trap. Sport was also huge for SEGA with SEGA sponsoring football, The British GP and the F1 Williams team and the endless list of Mega Drive sports games endorsed by famous sports stars all inthe MD days

I think a lot of older gamers -- especially in America -- just played sports games on the Mega Drive/Genesis. The machine had a strong image as being the 'must-have' system for sports titles.

Daytona USA should have been delayed and the car count cut to 16 imo. But it was a short term blimp

I will never forget the hysteria surrounding the 'Ridge Racer vs Daytona USA' situation. All the magazines made a huge issue of the topic prior to launch, so gamers were eagerly waiting to see the verdict. I remember the verdict being something like "Daytona USA is a decent but very rough port. Whereas Ridge Racer is quite incredible." That was the overall feeling across the gaming world.

I think it's important to remember how that situation played a big part in people deciding whether to buy a Saturn or PlayStation. You also had the 'Virtua Fighter vs. Tekken' side of things. I remember it being quite the same story in the West, with Virtua Fighter receiving praise for being a decent port that's quite impressive, but people said Tekken looked more impressive and played better.

Now I'm not taking sides, because I know it's a matter of taste. But I'm talking about the general feelings and ideas stirred up by the press. I can clearly remember that word got around that Ridge Racer and Tekken were brilliant games next to Daytona and Virtua Fighter. Even news programmes decided to focus on Sony's machine and hyped games like Ridge Racer. Namco's racer being a spectacular port really was a huge thing that impressed all sorts of people.

I think the real damage was SEGA West thinking that the 32X would sweep everything before it and when it didn't they had no plan B and SEGA lost many of its 3rd parties, retail support and even their own core group of gamers, who were promised the earth the 32X and got a system that was utter crap and a total nightmare to set up too

With the 32X and its poor sales, you could put that down to lots of people waiting for a proper 32-bit console. It's not like a huge percentage of Mega Drive/Genesis owners got burned by the 32X. If the device had sold many millions -- and it had received the same dire support -- then I could see how it would have played a big part in turning people against the Saturn.

I think the failure of the Saturn in the West, is down to few factors: Daytona USA being a rough port; the £399/$399 price point; and Sony being lucky enough to get everything right. If Sega's dev teams had managed to get more out of the Saturn prior to launch, Daytona would have been more convincing. Not having the time to polish/refine Daytona really shot Sega in the foot.

Of course, many enthusiast gamers loved the Saturn, and it was a huge thing in Japan. In Japan, Virtua Fighter was massive. Import gamers also managed to get a lot from the machine. But the western mass market fell in love with the PlayStation early on -- and that love affair was certainly justified. Sega, in the West, did a terrible job with the Saturn.

[Neon Ignition]

That touched up rerelease of Virtua Fighter didn't help either, it added so little but re-enforced the idea of the Saturns games struggling to meet the standards of the PS1

[Atticus]

I never liked Remix ... give me original Virtua Fighter any day, glitches n'all.

[Team Andromeda]

I never liked Remix ... give me original Virtua Fighter any day, glitches n'all.

Yeah, I loved the look of the game. It's my fav version and the sound effects are even better than the Arcade. SEGA Europe and America should have only gone with the Remix version for the west though (more so as the game was complete in May)

[Leon Retro]

That touched up rerelease of Virtua Fighter didn't help either, it added so little but re-enforced the idea of the Saturns games struggling to meet the standards of the PS1

It felt like Sega were struggling to impress people. Of course, it showed that Sega cared about the situation, but it still added to a sense of desperation that created negativity.

I know that Saturn Daytona was seen as a good game by journos, but they still made note of the game's shortcomings. I think everyone expected it to look nicer and run a bit better. However unfair it may have been, lots of people did compare Daytona to Ridge Racer and conclude that the PlayStation was better tech. Of course, if Sega had spent more time refining Daytona, it would have probably been able to generate more positivity for the Saturn.

It's definitely interesting to look at how Japan embraced the Saturn. Japanese gamers really like Virtua Fighter, whereas it(and the series in general) never became a big thing in the West. The same with all the 2D fighters the Saturn attracted. The Western market obviously had different tastes -- and Sony managed to cater to that better than Sega did.

I was an import gamer who still loved 2D games at the time, so I really enjoyed the Saturn. But I could see why people were making a song and dance about the PlayStation. I also really liked Ridge Racer, Tekken, Wipeout etc...

The Saturn went on to have quite a mystique surrounding it in the West. Which is partly why it's been a prominent machine on the retro scene. I'm very fond of the PlayStation and Saturn, but there's something more quirky and cool about the Saturn that makes it one of my favourite retro consoles.

[Team Andromeda]

I will never forget the hysteria surrounding the 'Ridge Racer vs Daytona USA' situation. All the magazines made a huge issue of the topic prior to launch, so gamers were eagerly waiting to see the verdict. I remember the verdict being something like "Daytona USA is a decent but very rough port. Whereas Ridge Racer is quite incredible."

I see to remember The Pal version of Saturn's Sega Rally setting a sales record for the then faster selling CD game in the UK. I think Tekken was just easier to play than VF and imo VF Remix and VF II looked way more impressive than Tekken 1/2 but Tekken was easier to play and thanks to the use of system 13 in lot more Arcade's and pubs compared to the far more costly Model 1 and 2 VF and VF boards

I think most of the media was all for SONY and that never helped SEGA. All one ever heard was when a Saturn game looked worse than the PS version, never the other way around. You also never saw the press say how Saturn's Virtual ON port was a much better port to Namco Cyber Sled on the PS (even though Virtual On was running on a much more powerful board), or how Virtua Cop Saturn was a more impressive port to Time Crisis on the PS.

I think if SEGA West would have been behind the Saturn and totally focused on just Saturn, SEGA could have done a much better job and really taken the fight to the N64

[Atticus]

I remember Sega Saturn Magazine's demo disc featuring stage 2 of Sega Rally. Top taster that was. Amazing.

[Leon Retro]

I see to remember The Pal version of Saturn's Sega Rally setting a sales record for the then faster selling CD game in the UK.

Imagine if the Saturn had launched with Sega Rally. Of course, that couldn't have happened, but it highlights how a Saturn game could actually be stunning and really impress all sorts of people. A more polished/refined Daytona would have really helped early on in the machine's life.

I think Tekken was just easier to play than VF and imo VF Remix and VF II looked way more impressive than Tekken 1/2 but Tekken was easier to play and thanks to the use of system 13 in lot more Arcade's and pubs compared to the far more costly Model 1 and 2 VF and VF boards

Very different looking games that have their own distinct gameplay style. I think people saw Tekken as more advanced though, with its colourful graphics and texture maps.

I'm not sure, but I think the Tekken series has always appealed more to Western gamers. The Virtua Fighter series was always massive in Japan, but not a big thing at all in the West. Of course, some gamers in the West really like Virtua Fighter, but I think the Tekken games really grabbed all sorts of gamers.

I think most of the media was all for SONY and that never helped SEGA.

Sony had great PR. But also, I think journos were very curious about the PlayStation and were inspired by how positive Sony were when it came to taking on Sega and Nintendo. I think it was a case of journos really buying into the PlayStation -- and then that positivity translated across to the gaming public.

All one ever heard was when a Saturn game looked worse than the PS version, never the other way around. You also never saw the press say how Saturn's Virtual ON port was a much better port to Namco Cyber Sled on the PS (even though Virtual On was running on a much more powerful board), or how Virtua Cop Saturn was a more impressive port to Time Crisis on the PS.

As much as I'm going on about Daytona USA being a bit too rough around the edges, there's no doubt that the Saturn is actually excellent hardware. It's obvious that the Saturn has the grunt to run all sorts 3D games really well. Unfortunately, after various launch problems in the West, a general feeling of negativity started to surround Sega and its new console.

In America especially, the total sales figures really highlight how gamers decided against the Saturn. The PlayStation absolutely destroyed the Saturn in America. And it's not like American gamers were just crazy about the PlayStation, because the N64 still managed to be relatively successful.

I think if SEGA West would have been behind the Saturn and totally focused on just Saturn, SEGA could have done a much better job and really taken the fight to the N64

We can all talk about what would have helped the Saturn in the West. The price point should have been £299/$299. Sega should have done everything to make sure Daytona USA was more polished/refined. Instead of Virtua Fighter, Sega should have been developing a texture mapped fighter for Western tastes. Also, Sega should have been fully focused on the Saturn in all regions, and done far better with PR.

As much as people have a point about the Mega-CD and 32X, I still think the Saturn could have potentially been a success. But there was a long list of issues with the way Sega handled the Saturn. On the other hand -- no-one can say Sony got anything wrong with the PlayStation. I think Sony got lucky in some respects, but overall it's quite incredible what Sony did with its first console.

It's also quite incredible how the company dropped the ball with the PlayStation Classic.