I keep thinking, if they give people the worst education possible, they can con them into voting for anyone. Democracy can be flawed , just like anything.
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Yes, the US system is a democratic system - every vote is equal when electing their representatives in congress and the house of representatives, but the people do not directly vote for the president, they vote for their representitive to the Electrol College (in fact there is no constitutional right for the people to be able to vote for the president at all).
Now you might argue that the States don't have equal weight, but there was a valid reason for that system at the time, to ensure that less populated states had an equal say on who is elected president.
Is it perfect? No and there's certainly a strong argument for reforming the Electoral College or getting rid of it entirely and making the presidential election based on the popular vote. If people were directly voting for the president with such a weighting, then, in principle an individuals would count more in certain states on paper, but they are not, and it's not the same thing as a meritocracy which is about voter supression.Last edited by MartyG; 09-07-2020, 19:08.Comment
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In an uplifting note, the Supreme Court has ruled that Trump's Tax Returns can be releasedComment
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I have not once mentioned a meritocracy so this is a comparison of your own making. However what we have established here is that what is a democracy comes in different forms and may not be perfect and so can be changed for the better. And that’s really the only case I was ever making here.Originally posted by MartyG View PostComment
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I'd definitely agree that disinformation is a negative, not just in politics but all walks of life, but I'm not sure how you would effectively measure what you want without testing and the testing itself would be a form of voter supression - maybe you could do this indirectly with random sampling through subtle questionnaires to get an idea (and actually this does already happen via organisations like YouGov, you'll notice questions worded in a certain way to extract such info sometimes).Originally posted by kryss View Post
I don't even agree with introducing the requirement of ID in order to vote (something that the tories have said they will introduce in their manifesto in their section on voting reform) because it discourages certain section of society from voting (and because voter fraud is a non-issue).Comment
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This is a requirement in Canada. What "section" are you talking about?Originally posted by MartyG View PostComment
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Page 48: https://assets-global.website-files....0Manifesto.pdf (PDF link).Originally posted by kryss View PostComment
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In the UK, voters don't have to present ID when they go to the polls. Governments have suggested changing this in the past, but we're historically resistant to it because...Originally posted by kryss View Post
1) There's no real evidence which suggests there's enough voter fraud
2) It prevents certain people from voting, such as undocumented immigrants
The logic, therefore, is that if there's no voter fraud, the party that wants to bring it in would be a party which stands to benefit from having it. Kinda like how it's been argued that in the US, parties talk about it when they feel they've lost the hispanic vote, just like how parties talk about disbanding the electoral college, but accept its ruling if it happens to swing in their favour.
It's worth bearing in mind that in the UK, we don't have a universal ID system. We were going to have one at one point, but the public opposed it, and it was a massive shambles where (IIRC) the government lost a load of private data, which showed how it was going to be a privacy nightmare. I think you can still get one of the cards but they're voluntary, and I haven't seen one for years.
As a quick note, not having a go - but I've always found that reason to be entirely invalid.Originally posted by MartyG View PostLast edited by Asura; 09-07-2020, 21:06.Comment
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Only time I voted while I was still at home was postally anyways. And a passport isn't universal? Or am I just assuming that everyone has a passport, which they don't.
What section of society I meant.Originally posted by MartyG View Post
If immigrants were undocumented, how could they vote anyway?
As a permanent resident here I couldn't vote, as a citizen I can.
I spent far too long working in hospitality where people just assumed I would take their word that they were who they said they were. People are, generally, full of ****.Comment
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This explains the issue better than I can: https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...racy/voter-id/Originally posted by kryss View Post
The 2018/2019s trial saw more people turned away from voting in five/ten locations than there was in the entirety of voter fraud cases in the UK https://fullfact.org/crime/voter-id-2019/ - and the vast majority of those cases are not people pretending to be someone else to gain an additional vote (which are barely into double figures), it's things like tampering with the ballot box etc which no form of ID would stop.
The effort to do so simply isn't worth it, so there is zero need to disuad anyone from voting by making it more difficult or inconvenient.Last edited by MartyG; 10-07-2020, 07:36.Comment
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This is a good video. 14 mins long and it compares 'Kayfabe' with what Trump is doing. I'd never heard this term before. The last 5 mins or so put things in to perspective.
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