America III: Going Deutsche

[Neon Ignition]

Here's a question - Whether in 2020 or 2024, when the lightning rod of Trump's persona is removed from the equation, how does the Republican party move forward without him?

They will lack the very particular attraction to his base that he brings, their existing politicians unable to recreate that The Apprentice appeal he brought. Might they be destroying their 4+ year future for the sake of one desperate last stab at power with an egomaniac moron?

[Hirst]

Back when people voted for him originally, they could have probably kidded themselves that he wasn't a supporter of white supremacists/was completely mentally stable/knew what he was doing/wasn't an absolutely awful person with no moral compass.

I would say we are at the stage now where you can't say that any more. We all know what he's like now and you are either OK with that or not.

[Dogg Thang]

This is a good question because, while Marty is right that Trump didn't create all this, his success and then the Republicans falling in line have led to quite a different Republican party, one that has doubled down on a lot of things they just wouldn't have some years ago and swinging further right. And as we've wondered, will there will be consequences? Clearly Republicans right now think there won't be so I think they've seen a path that works for them. Whatever they might call it behind closed doors, they're jumping into fascism and I don't think Trump being gone will change that for some time. The effect has been too great, they've got away with too much.

[MartyG]

The Republican party has been pushing through extreme ideas for decades - it's not so much the Republicans falling into line with Trump as Republicans like Mitch McConnell using him as a more manipulative puppet to rubber stamp them. There's no doubt Trump has made things easier, but he's far from the leader of the charge.

One of the biggest issues in US politics is the Electoral College as it gives the Republican party an advantage due to how the votes are distributed across the different States. One of the ideas being floated around at the moment is, should the Democrats take the presidency and the senate, constitutionally they could introduce Puerto Rico and DC as new states and gain senators/electors, redressing that balance.

[Dogg Thang]

The Republican party has been pushing through extreme ideas for decades - it's not so much the Republicans falling into line with Trump as Republicans like Mitch McConnell using him as a more manipulative puppet to rubber stamp them. There's no doubt Trump has made things easier, but he's far from the leader of the charge.

Yep, I agree with this. That door has been kicked open now whereas they were pushing it gently for years. They're not about to close it now, with or without Trump.

[QualityChimp]

(Obvious thread title, but I'd be disappointed if you hadn't taken the opportunity!)

I wonder if anyone watching the debate was actually on the fence who to vote for?

"Well, I guess I can tolerate Trump's racism, sexism, lies, refusal to reveal his taxes, rape accusations, climate change denial, nepotism, mishandling of Coronavirus, inability to deliver a single election promise such as his wall, enforcing patriotic education in prematurely reopened schools, refusal to condemn white supremacist groups, abandoning the elderly to Covid, criticism of the Black Lives Matter movement, mis-spending of pandemic funding on military projects, attempts to disrupt voting, denying Russian interference, attempts to control the media, the deaths of immigrant children, violating the domestic and foreign emolument clauses of the Constitution, playing golf more than any other president, misusing charitable funds and paying out-of-court to avoid fraud charges, stopping building of commercial property that would compete with the Trump Hotel, illegally paying hush money to women he had affairs with, posing infront of a church he doesn't attend opposite demonstrators that he fired tear gas on, inciting violence, compromising security by granting clearance to Jared who has ties to foreign governments, violating international human rights laws by putting kids in cages, trying to illegally withhold disaster relief money to Puerto Rico, obstruction of justice in the Russian enquiry, perjury for lying under oath in court, supporting QAnon, launching airstrikes in Syria and Yemen without a vote in congress, declaring a fake “national emergency” to circumvent Congress and fund his border wall and encouraging China and Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden.

Maybe he'll say something inappropriate for once and I change who I vote for?"

[MartyG]

Maybe some folk here aren't familiar with the partisan news in the US. It's nothing like the way the news is done here, if you've only been consuming Fox News, you could have missed a lot of that over the last four years.

To you and I it might be obvious those things are the case, but you'd have a completely different and distorted view if you've been consuming this media for years.

[QualityChimp]

That's definitely a factor.

People only watching Fox News or reading the Daily Mail are going to get a lopsided view of events.

That's quite a long list of questionable behaviour to completely miss out on, though!

A co-worker has taken to watching Fox News out of morbid curiosity, and was surprised that their narrative wasn't "Trump won the debate!" but "The debate doesn't matter".

EDIT: Interesting link, BTW. I've forwarded it on to my friend.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm very aware of Fox News. I've seen Fox News. And yes, they don't cover some of that stuff but what's probably more relevant is that they do cover a lot of it but promote the view that it is perfectly acceptable and okay. They still know a lot of what's going on. Trump is not some mystery.

Edit: For clarity, my basic point is this and probably has been this for the last few pages - this far into his presidency, through this many scandals and speeches and outrages, ignorance is no excuse. Support is active complicity.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Here's a question - Whether in 2020 or 2024, when the lightning rod of Trump's persona is removed from the equation, how does the Republican party move forward without him?

They will lack the very particular attraction to his base that he brings, their existing politicians unable to recreate that The Apprentice appeal he brought. Might they be destroying their 4+ year future for the sake of one desperate last stab at power with an egomaniac moron?

They'll probably find someone more right wing and racist. It's worked for them this far.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/oct/01/donald-trump-white-supremacy-joe-biden-kamala-harris-coronavirus-covid-19-live

Amidst changes that could see Trump's mic cut off in future debates, he and his team spit their dummies out.

Embedded Tweet

[JazzFunk]

Biden's a paed and a senile, ineffective weirdo one, at that.

Much like our Boris....or as I call him, "Bozza". Useless, ineffective dandy-wazz.

I don't know why you geezes care so much about US politics but it's clear you're all backing the three-legged horse.

I'm with The Trumpster. Being ineffectual gets no man anywhere.

[JazzFunk]

*CONTROVERSY*

(grabs all the iPhones n' nips out quickly)

[Lyris]

I think they're both pretty awful. Most of the US media, for the last 4 years, has been having a gigantic tantrum that they were completely wrong in their election predictions, and their favorite choice failed to get elected. Instead we have a thin-skinned gameshow president who can't formulate a complete sentence and speak it through to completion, and a doddering old man whose biggest claim to fame is "I'm not the other guy".

It could be worse, at least none of the younger, crazier far-left types are running.

Based on the total ka-ka-show of a debate, I'm betting we'll see very low voter turnout.

[Lyris]

Back when people voted for him originally, they could have probably kidded themselves that he wasn't a supporter of white supremacists/was completely mentally stable/knew what he was doing/wasn't an absolutely awful person with no moral compass.

Donald Trump is a lot of things, but why do you think he's a white supremacist?