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America III: Going Deutsche

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    4 years. An election year. A hundred thousand US citizens dead. Today at the White House:



    Welcome to Trump's America

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      The officers involved in the shooting did not activate their body cameras, in violation of policy, and Louisville Police Chief Steve Conrad was fired.


      Another black man shot and killed by police who seem to have forgotten to turn on their body cams....

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        Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
        Because Trump has said that the demonstrations are Antifa activity and is now declaring Antifa a terrorist organisation. And given that Antifa, for most practical purposes, is a vague idea and, as Trump has already done, anyone can be branded a member whether they are a member of any an actual group or not, Trump has just set up a situation in which anyone who opposes him, speaks out against oppression or fascism, pushes back against his racism or just about anything else, can be treated as a terrorist. That's why now.
        I had to look up Antifa. I should follow the news more.

        Anonymous made police radios play F the police yesterday.

        What an utter scrote trump is.

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          Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
          Welcome to Trump's America
          Scary thing is that a large part of the population is perfectly fine with it.

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            I'm a bit concerned by how I'm seeing so many of the protestors online say that their short-term goal is to defund the police force, long term goal is to dismantle and get rid of the police force entirely - and, critically, to not replace it with a new, reformed law enforcement system. Like just to have no police whatsoever.

            I don't want to argue with people because tensions are running really high right now, but I can't believe that would ever work. I've met libertarians who believe similar things and while I appreciate that they have that much faith in the goodness of people, I don't have that faith, and I believe that law enforcement will always be necessary at least in our lifetimes.

            I don't disagree with massively gutting and reforming the existing US police; people are talking about how some of their forces only require ~6 months of training. It's crazy. But I can't imagine how the world would function entirely without a police force.

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              It can't. No society can function without a police force. What you'd very quickly get are private police forces serving the interests of large corporations and that wouldn't end well for people. But when it comes to the US police force, I think the feeling is that this is now unfixable in its current form. So tear it down and start again from zero.

              While I agree with the problem obviously, I don't personally agree with the solution for the same reason as you. But I completely understand the feeling.

              This whole thing is a total mess. Bottom line is I'm going to listen to black people and support black people and, otherwise, stay out of their way. I can't help but remember that fascist white supremacist Steve Bannon pretty much wanted a race war though and, in some form, he's getting what he wanted.

              Also, for those speculating that this could make Trump unelectable, I think the problem is that every rising crisis gives him more ammunition to cancel the election altogether. He has always had aspirations of being a dictator. Trump may never need an election to serve more years.
              Last edited by Dogg Thang; 02-06-2020, 07:56.

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                I think what a lot of people don’t understand, is that lots of areas in the US are no go places, they are hard brutal areas built on crime and violence. They don’t like being policed, we have started to import that mentality here.

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                  Maybe. I don’t know. What I do know is that they say those exact same things about over here. So it’s hard to know the truth when it comes to that sort of thing.

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                    Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                    It can't. No society can function without a police force. What you'd very quickly get are private police forces serving the interests of large corporations and that wouldn't end well for people. But when it comes to the US police force, I think the feeling is that this is now unfixable in its current form. So tear it down and start again from zero.
                    Not convinced they're serving the people at the moment, maybe certain sectors of the public. I know this for sure though, sending in the military is the exact opposite of what they should be doing. That's simply doubling down on the problem.

                    But again Trump's actions might be a good thing for the long term if it shows more and more people how uniquely unqualified he is for the position of PotUS.

                    Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                    Also, for those speculating that this could make Trump unelectable, I think the problem is that every rising crisis gives him more ammunition to cancel the election altogether. He has always had aspirations of being a dictator. Trump may never need an election to serve more years.
                    Trump does not possess such a power, the 20th amendment is quite clear and would likely lead to Pelosi becoming president due to the line of succession.

                    To prevent this, it would require a repeal of the consitution of US and doing so would open the opportunity more widely to then change other amendments, say, the 2nd amendment: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...onal-amendment

                    It would be an extremely risky move and very unlikely to succeed and should he pull such a stunt, the riots now would look like my local infant's school playtime antics. I don't think it's hyperbolic to suggest that a president refusing to concede his position, could lead to civil war.

                    Also, I think tear gassing crowds just to allow Trump to walk to a church so he can pose for a photo holding up a bible in the air is further proof of the non-existence of god.
                    Last edited by MartyG; 02-06-2020, 09:12.

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                      Well I suppose if you’ve spent your entire life in fear of law enforcement, then perhaps imagining a police force that is any different to what he have now is hard.
                      Hell, we have a more stringent training program here, but we still have issues with systemic racism in the police force.

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                        You only have to look at Flint Michigan to see what having near no police force is like and how that works out.

                        Answer: an obvious outcome.

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                          Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                          It would be an extremely risky move and very unlikely to succeed and should he pull such a stunt, the riots now would look like my local infant's school playtime antics. I don't think it's hyperbolic to suggest that a president refusing to concede his position, could lead to civil war.
                          Does Trump seem like the type to work through that thought process?

                          One question that I feel might become horribly important in the near future is - who will the military side with? Because if it gets even close to real civil war, the US military will become a very big player and, when it comes down to it, there is no guarantee they'll side with Trump.

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                            Trump so far has gone through the courts rather than defy the constitution. It would take the senate to back him up if he tried such antics and I believe that defying the US constitution would be a step too far, even for Republicans (save for the odd couple).

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                              As always with these things, I hope you're right. I have been feeling very pessimistic about the situation lately and it only seems to be getting worse. I hope you're right, I hope the election happens and I hope Biden wins and we can move past this godawful chapter.

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                                Are we to assume that if Biden wins and he sticks to not pardoning Trump that it will likely mean he's off to jail?

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