Canon-Strike VI: Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Asura]

Personally I really liked Homecoming, but that's probably because I had low expectations. I mainly liked the villain.

[Neon Ignition]

There's no not liking Keaton but whilst I'm generally fine with the film I do see it as pretty bland amongst the MCU films. I don't buy Holland's Parker, he doesn't come across as that smart or that geeky or even as being that Spider-Man. In an attempt to differentiate him from the previous two film incarnations they robbed him of much of his identity. Overall, it's not the approach to the character I'd have gone with and it's still arguably creepy that Stark was stalking a lone schoolboy (Starks relationship with Peter makes zero sense).

[Dogg Thang]

I love Homecoming! I think it has loads of heart. I think Holland is brilliant in the role and I honestly think he’s the first Spider-Man that feels perfect to me. The story really works for me. Ned is adorable. Keaton is fantastic and his whole story makes him the best Marvel villain by far in my opinion. I realise the bar is low there but I buy into his character and his motivations and he feels like a person, not just an object to fight. And Homecoming has one of the only two Marvel moments that genuinely surprised me so that’s pretty rare. Yeah, I could have done with less Stark or even without him altogether but I love the film.

Thor Ragnarok is such a weird one. It is SO different to the other Thor films that, to me, it felt like a parody. Like a SNL skit extended into a movie. I wondered if they went too far. And yet I couldn’t deny that it’s a huge amount of fun and that I think Thor films, of all the mini units in Marvel, needed a big kick in the pants and this delivered that. I have enjoyed it much more on subsequent watches. It holds up really well. Valkyrie is brilliant and obviously Goldblum is Goldblum and that’s good and the rock guy steals the movie.

My only annoyance with Ragnarok that has remained is Hulk’s weird autotuned voice. It’s SO computery and unnatural that I find it hard to accept it’s coming from what we’re seeing on screen. It’s a distraction.

[Neon Ignition]

If - big if - Sony can maintain a certain quality bar I reckon Holland's Spider-Man will be much better off once the third film is out the way and he is used to finalise merging in the other films Sony is producing such as Venom, Morbius etc. The MCU connection feels like too much of a crutch for the character so being able to stand on his own unsupported with that much screen time to develop in should make him unique amongst MCU heroes.

[Dogg Thang]

I feel the problem there will be that he will be used as a way of building those other spin-offs as they try to make their own universe a success, and so becomes that crutch. For me, he is working great within the MCU already and he contributed hugely to Infinity War, fulfilling a role the Marvel characters don’t have otherwise. But it will be interesting to see if they let him stand alone a bit more in the new Spider-Man movie.

[Neon Ignition]

Sony seems to be gearing itself towards 2 SMCU movies a year from next year and the Marvel deal encompasses a third Spider-Man movie already set for 2021 which means Holland isn't contractually freed up until after that third film is complete (assuming they don't renew the existing deal as is) so shouldn't be available to film one of their films till late 2021? That would be for a 2022/2023 release (probably ahead of a fourth Spider-Man) by which time Sony should have between 6-7 spin-offs out the gate. Hopefully by then they've found their own feet or committed to it not working and keep this Spider-Man separate. After Venom's success though I'm already expecting them to be rubbing their hands at the idea of Holland swinging his way through Venom 3

[cutmymilk]

Just keep them separate. Sony has 700 characters to play with and Venom will be the hero.

[prinnysquad]

Homecoming is a pleasant film. An appealing little aside. I’m eternally grateful it isn’t another origin tale. Another that got better on second viewing.

Ragnarok is tonally a huge departure for the character. I said at the time - and I still think it - that underneath the zany style and the humour there’s a lot of dark stuff happening. Odin’s death, the destruction of Asgard, the murder of Thor’s friends, the destruction of his hammer - the comedic tone hides the tragedy. Does this work? For me, yes. I appreciate not for everyone, though. Valkyrie is a decent addition to the universe (and she, too, has a tragic backstory) and it’s quite uncomfortable to see Karl Urban’s outsider make all the wrong choices and wince as he sees his world torn apart by the maniac he’s allied himself with.

[Neon Ignition]

Trouble for Sony is that nothing in their stable will ultimately touch Spider-Man for popularity and in film terms he belongs resolutely with them so the move to have Holland in their films rather than a 4th reboot of the character is pure $$$ to them making it inevitable that their films will ultimately become canon.

[Neon Ignition]

Movie 18 - Black Panther
An absolute monster in terms of domestic earnings, Black Panther detoured from the path to Thanos to more fully introduce a world and hero that had briefly featured in part in Civil War. Still largely following the Marvel origin structure, the film takes place close after Civil War but ends pretty much in a place that allows time to pass with characters lined up for where we'd pick up with them later.




How important was Black Panther to the canon of the MCU?

[Dogg Thang]

I loved Black Panther. I think it's incredibly strong. It's one that has weirdly dodgy effects, probably some of the dodgiest effects of any of the Marvel movies, especially towards the end but that's probably the only negative I can think of. After so many Marvel movies, what Black Panther managed to deliver was a completely different feel even around a very familiar structure. The visuals and music are incredibly striking and create its own unique atmosphere and gives Wakanda such a sense of place, to the extent that I think it's probably the only single character movie that gets a direct soundtrack lift in Infinity War?

The characters are incredibly strong with all of the secondary characters I feel outshining most of the secondary characters in the previous Marvel movies, each bringing a separate yet understandable point of view creating quite a complex set of viewpoints in what isn't a very complex story. And that's maybe down to the voices behind the film and I think that's very much to its credit - it says that seemingly simple situations are rarely all that simple. That applies to its antagonist too in such a way that it seems like lots of people who watched the film ended up on board with much of what he said and somehow ignored or missed his actual actions. That's an interesting achievement, if maybe a little scary, but it's a testament to the depth in what is really a big flashy comic movie and one that doesn't shy away from that or miss that it should be that.

If anything, maybe the downside here is that the strength of those secondary characters allows Black Panther himself to get lost a little as a sort of guy in the middle but, mostly, I think that's fine. He's the centre and he's a guy who listens.

So yeah, overall I think this one is brilliant. Hoping Shuri gets her own movie some day.

[Neon Ignition]

For me Black Panther is serviceable. It's one of the few entries that I still struggle to motivate myself to rewatch because whilst there are commendable aspects to the film too much of it is forgettable or lacking in impact. It's villain probably is one of the biggest contributions. I can only think of two villains (not counting Loki) who I distinctly recall in the MCU because it's one of the biggest flaws Marvel has ongoing. Black Panther's rare choice to properly dedicate time and reasoning to his motivations mark him out. Outside of that though I find it very hard to care about T'Challa (could be because he's a bit drowned out in his own film but it also comes across as lacking in leading charisma), Shuri adds some humour but she's still just a Q knock off as things stand, his best friend turning on him felt underbaked and the action sequences I either forget or remember because of how bad the effects were.

I think the trouble with Black Panther probably is less the film and more its place in the MCU. Had it released in Phase 2 I'd probably have been more warm to it but releasing late in Phase 3 the whole Marvel origins bag of tricks feels very tired, it's something that dogs Captain Marvel as well to an extent, the formularic nature (not their fault per se given the comic origins) feels burnt out and I don't find enough to latch on to with BP, hopefully sequels flesh things out in a way that breaks it from the first films mould as Marvel sequels usually seem to.

[Brad]

I thought Black Panther was pretty dull and was basically The Lion King retold. I pretty much only enjoy the funny bits in the marvel films these days and I don't remember this having any. So predictable too:

"I'm not going to help you,you're on your own"

Yeah right.

Felt same way about Captain Marvel mind. Miserable old sod that I've become.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Black Panther is very run of the mill and by the numbers. I think they pitched it a little too safe for fear it might struggle at the box office.

[prinnysquad]

I’m with Dogg on this one. Black Panther was a very strong character in Civil War, and it’s a testament to the secondary characters in Black Panther that he feels like one of an ensemble, at best. The world-building is a fantastic departure from the norm, in terms of the culture/tech balance. It benefits from repeat viewings. On first watch, the car chase was the best scene, but after subsequent viewings, I prefer the duels on the waterfall. They’re visually and aurally powerful. The main bad guy is genuinely good. There’s a lot to like in this film.