Europe IV: The Final Hour

[Dogg Thang]

someone capable of going toe to toe with Johnson.

Johnson is a bumbling comedy buffoon who lies, won't turn up to the interviews that matter and hides in a fridge. So I'm desperately curious - what is needed to compete with that? Seriously though, it's mad that this man can lead a party to victory. Which is why I maintain that it says much more about the British public than it does even about Johnson himself. But I am genuinely curious to see what it would take to bring a shift back to Labour. Feels like the public want right wing parties and that's probably what it will take.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Like I said, we have always be right leaning. In Boris and Brexit we have become more right, but it's how this country has always been.

[QualityChimp]

Boris has carefully cultivated this appearance of a loveable scamp with crazy hair and he's your chum, with everyone using your first name.

Johnson, is nothing of the kind and he's sussed out that you can lie, not have to account for it and avoid any public scrutiny.

It's actually dark times that there is no culpability.

[Neon Ignition]

In terms of tow to toe with Boris it's less politically and more that he's managed, in a way predecessors never really have, to cultivate that sense of 'celebrity' leader. With or without his position he's a recognisable personality and that plays well into the campaigning when pitting him against another individual. Labour needs someone personable and likeable as a base to build on. It's all too easy to highlight what's wrong with Johnson and Corbyn but Boris's personal appeal is why he weathered stuff much easier than Jeremy where there's little reason up front to be as forgiving as he's never been that likeable a character to most.

It's like the new Labour days, in hindsight it gets lost to a degree but the personal popularity of the fresh faced Blair was a key aspect in kicking away the last Tory gauntlet run

[Dogg Thang]

Not only is there no culpability or public scrutiny but a percentage of the general public have sent a clear message that they are very happy to be lied to. I feel this will only get worse. Brexit messes aren't suddenly going to cause people to turn on the Tories. At most, they'll simply require a change of lies.

On Johnson, let's not forget that May also managed to beat Labour even with the hung parliament and she had the charisma of a dead rat. Getting someone with a sparkly smile would not beat the lies and xenophobic messaging and dim-witted simplicity of Get Brexit Done.

[Cepp]

The blame will be placed elsewhere when Brexit goes to hell. I don't foresee any kind of introspection with the public, media or MPs.

There's always someone you can scapegoat.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/who-will-be-the-next-labour-party-leader

Guardian lists the likely contenders for Corbyn as replacement. There's significant problems with them all but to me the only one that makes any sense is Rayner. Labour's keen for a female lead, she's close enough to existing figures but not so core to them as to be tainted either and in the last days of the election has been quietly raising her profile without major incident either. Anyone very close to Corbyn/Blair eras can forget it.

[Dogg Thang]

So what exactly does this victory mean for Brexit? I mean, won't there essentially be the same problems and hurdles to jump through?

Edit: Now realising that one does not jump through a hurdle. That explains why I never managed to win one of those races...

[Asura]

So what exactly does this victory mean for Brexit? I mean, won't there essentially be the same problems and hurdles to jump through?

The Tories have an undisputed majority though, so surely they just do what they want to do?

[Cassius_Smoke]

The Tories have an undisputed majority though, so surely they just do what they want to do?

yep, things will just get waved through now.

[MartyG]

Different hurdles. It means there's nothing in parliament stopping the Tories doing whatever they want, so the biggest hurdle, getting something on the statute book to get it through is essentially gone.

The withdrawal agreement is likely to get passed by the end of January now which will then move things to the next stage. We will no longer be a member state of the EU come February 1st 2020 when those negotiations begin.

The big question is whether Johnson continues down the hard brexit path, or whether that stance is shifted back toward the centre for a softer brexit now he doesn't need the ERG.

Regardless, any hope of remaining in the EU is gone.



I swear I heard The Emperor's Theme being played by the band as Johnson passed through.

[QualityChimp]

What you'll also find is there will be a lot of:
BREAKING NEWS: BORIS BLASTS EU BOZOS!
Also: they axing more nursing jobs

[Neon Ignition]

I expect hard Brexit will continue to be the direction. On the radio there was a lot of talk about the Tories now being free to drift back to the centre right but they've got zero reason to and I bet Johnson still owes a lot of debts to those darker elements of the party. Far as I'm concerned we're fully entering the UK's own Trump-Era now.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I expect hard Brexit will continue to be the direction. On the radio there was a lot of talk about the Tories now being free to drift back to the centre right but they've got zero reason to and I bet Johnson still owes a lot of debts to those darker elements of the party. Far as I'm concerned we're fully entering the UK's own Trump-Era now.

If we are entering a Trump Era it will be worse than the US because we have no checks or institutions in place to stop madness setting in. Laws will stream through the commons and the house of Lords are useless. If they wanted to build a wall across Scotland, they can just pass a law to do it. Easy.

[Dogg Thang]

On the radio there was a lot of talk about the Tories now being free to drift back to the centre right but they've got zero reason to

Absolutely. They have been clearly rewarded for going harder right and doubling down on the rhetoric that comes with it. As horrid as it is, if they're looking to keep power and push through everything they want to do, they have no reason to take their foot off the gas now.