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  1. #901
    gunrock's Avatar
    Ahhhh. Get higher, baby!
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    Gamertag: Paleboy PSN ID: paleboy1970 Steam ID: paleboy
    @Asura: I think you have mixed 3 and 4 up, they are one and the same. Aspirational conservatives.

    The tories appeal to Britain's innate snobbery. There are people who live in terraced houses, who look at their neighbours and think "Look at the state of that lot! At least we're better than them", despite living in a near identical house on the same street. It's classic tribalism, that folks like to think that they're somehow better than their peers, neighbours, family members etc. The tories play on that, with their "hardworking British families like you" crap (not all of you, but you there, yes you, not him, not them, you!), when in reality, very few of the tory MPs have held jobs, let alone real jobs that involve working for someone who isn't related or a friend of their father. The grow up in families who are funded by inherited money, investment bankers, company directorships (i.e. getting rich off the labour of the working classes), or they married into it. Actual hard work, like clocking on and off for factory shift work, or working 29 hour shifts as a junior doctor, or trying to teach children who have arrived at school with no books, dirty and with no breakfast is not in their range of experience.

    Yet they know that 'familiarity breeds contempt' and there's no more familiar than looking at the reflective image of your neighbours and wishing to be something that they (and you) will never be. The tories and the press have over many years sold the British public, the idea of the ranks of the unemployed, immigrants and the disabled being full of free-loaders and scroungers just waiting for their next handout, whilst you 'dear voter', have to go to your workplace and put in a full working day or scramble around to try and make sure several zero-hour contracts cover the bills and keep the lights on. Classic British colonial-era divide-and-conquer.

    All the while, successive governments sell off what was already ours, at cut price, I might add, to foreign private interests, who bend, pull, twist and tear these precious service institutions into profit making engines and where possible accepting subsidies if they're available.

    They call it austerity, because we, the nation, can't afford youth clubs, libraries or unemployment benefit . A place where people freeze to death in their home while the kids are at school or have benefits removed for missing a meeting and because the the DHSS are incentivised to remove benefits

    And yet the turkeys still vote for Christmas....
    Last edited by gunrock; 18-09-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius_Smoke View Post
    Serious question: Should I be planning for brexit? Like stocking the shelves and stuffing the pillows with money?
    As said earlier in the thread, though it might seem ridiculous, we've done this. We went out to Tesco's one evening earlier in the month and bought 50 of put-away food. Mainly dried stuff, tins - but with a decent amount of tinned fruit, as realistically, I think that's the only foodstuff we'll run short of that's worth planning for*,**. I figured it's just food; if things go as normal after October, we can just eat it over the following weeks.

    *Note that I don't think we'll really run short of fruit, but I think people will panic-buy and that will produce a shortage.

    **I've seen people buying things like bottled water, and even I think that's OTT. We're not going to run out of basic stuff like water, and if we do, it'd be the type of scenario where you don't need bottled water; you need a baseball bat.

  3. #903

  4. #904
    Quote Originally Posted by vanpeebles View Post
    millennium bug version 2
    People say the millennium bug was a big load of nothing, but a lot of stuff was done behind the scenes to prevent disaster.

  5. #905
    Okay, given todays news is pretty much just live updates from the Supreme Court case which won't be concluded today let's spitball a scenario:

    Say that the stars align in a way that Labour or a coalition effort involving them gets into power. The inevitable next public step would be a Second Referendum pitting Leave versus Remain again. The prospects of one side or the other winning would come down to several factors making the last referendum the primary source for working out the public mindset. This poll of 12,000 people was carried out at the start of this year and raised the most common reasons for voting Leave given:

    How much of a factor would each of these be in a second referendum and does enough public concern still exist to galvanise a second Leave vote victory?

    Reason 01 - Rejection of current Government policies

    This one makes sense, a protest vote against Cameron and his cronies where Remain/Leave was less a factor compared to sticking it to a government that was seen as not listening. That was two government line ups ago and Johnson can be a draw to the public yet at the same time his hardline approach appeals primarily to a niche audience. Would enough people still feel like sticking it to a hardline Brexit Tory leadership and cause a Remain rise as a byproduct?

    Reason 02 - Immigration
    No doubt UKIP *cough* sorry, the Brexit Party would bang this drum again but it's dropped off the news and political radar a lot compared to the extent it dominated the space in 2016. It's partially because figures have already fallen as a byproduct of the last referendum's outcome and partially because the press focus on Brexit itself over it. Would an attempt to refocus on it in 2020 boost Leave enough?

    Reason 03 - Misinformation and Propaganda

    The toughest one. It existed on both sides of the argument, but we know for a fact that in a second referendum the Tories would be Pro-Leave and would lie once again with every facet of their being because they can't go a single day outside of a referendum campaign without lying about it either including the current sure-to-backfire-on-them-later line of 31 October brings Brexit to an end. There are no guarantees that the Remain campaign wouldn't lie again either but it would be less inclined to given the much larger body of facts and known quantities known now about leaving the EU. Is this the one that practically matters the least as it'll happen in every vote?

    Reason 04 - Economic Prosperity

    Saving money for the NHS, people would be better off, amazing trade deals with the rest of the world etc. This is a mixed bag reason as some of the factors are stricken off as they're not on the cards such as being better off or having great trade deals - the UK government has killed any faint hope through sheer incompetence and economic damage over the last few years. More money for the NHS? It was a key concern but regardless of Brexit the Tories have already committed the funds making it less of a public concern. This would likely be a key argument in a new campaign but what claims would be used second time around?

    Reason 05 - Nostalgia

    Taking back control. Probably the reason most likely to endure, the outdated sentimentality of reviving The Empire. Many hardline supporters will cling hard to this but one counter argument Remain would now likely make is how can the EU continue to be blamed for a lack of democratic sovereignty when our own government is now representing its biggest threat since the second world war?

    Reason 06 - Lethargy

    The article cites 72.2% as low turnout but realistically it was high, likely higher than a second vote would galvanise either. Another key consideration is that older voters more likely to vote Leave outnumbered younger voters more likely to vote Remain - with 4 years having passed and more younger voters engaging and older ones dying it could tip the result. This is always something of a false theory though, if it were the way things worked we'd be living in a left-wing ideological utopia within 20 years. What happens is older voters die off and younger ones become older and more right wing, also living longer as influencers as they go. It's why the Tories can persist over decades so dominantly. A more likely change in a second vote is that remain supporters who didn't vote first time because they weren't energised to and thought Remain would win will this time be spurred into action and tip that 1.89% loss the other way - Or not?

    Reason 07 - Weak Remain Campaign
    Very much a fact. It was abysmal with its core pillar being a poor attempt to generate Project Fear 2.0 on a cynical audience. Next time Remain parties would be much more focused and energised, Labour being the only party to take a weak position as host. Would this would make a more toe-to-toe campaign between two strong willed sides?

  6. #906

    Johnson given a 2 week deadline to produce an actual workable alternative to the backstop

  7. #907
    gunrock's Avatar
    Ahhhh. Get higher, baby!
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    Gamertag: Paleboy PSN ID: paleboy1970 Steam ID: paleboy
    Typical Eton prat.
    "What's the plan, Prime Minister?"
    "We'll just rock up five minutes before the Brexit deadline and blag our way through, bamboozle the Frenchmen with some piffle and a healthy dose of the The Classics, just like we did before with the examiners at Charterhouse! Push comes to shove, I might be able to dredge up a stanza or two of Kipling!"
    "Tell me you've read the brief, PM?"
    "Whatever for?! Baldercock and codswallop! Just follow my lead, we'll run rings around these Euro-plebs, mark my words."

    Seriously, they should bring back Blackadder and do a crossover with Yes, Minister.
    Last edited by gunrock; 19-09-2019 at 06:29 AM.

  8. #908
    Lord Percy: "B-but won't lots of people lose their jobs Edmund?"
    Baldrick: "And, excuse me sire, they've only given us 11 days to come up with something"
    Edmund: "Not to worry, I've come up with a plan so cunning that it could use its powers as a cunning linguist to carry out the cockney rhyming act of cunning linguist on a cunning canny linguist"
    Baldrick turn to Lord Percy: "That's good then, I was worried for a moment"
    Turns back and Blackadder has disappeared

    Mogg continues to tread the well worn out threat of Corbyn getting into power

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by gunrock View Post
    they should bring back Blackadder and do a crossover with Yes, Minister.
    Black Minister.

    I like it!

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by randombs View Post
    Black Minister.
    You called?


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