Is Western Civilisation in Decline?

[Anpanman]

Cats are a waste of space as well.

Cats are fine, not had any rat problems since we got ours compared to beforehand.

[wakka]

Wools stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel about religion.

[Wools]

Wools stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel about religion.

I always try my best!

[Zen Monkey]

I disagree, but I feel we'll always disagree on this. For example, The Royal British Legion. There's no question since it's inception, it's glorified the army and continues to support the very poorest of our UK children become war fighters in other countries. Some say it's a charity beyond compare, I argue it glorifies the UK army and shouts down any critics of them.

I know it's an extreme view point, but I feel religion, climate change and corruption in politics are the most disgusting and vile issues facing humanity. So attempting to dress up any spiritual element, whether it's spiritual or religious, as something to aspire to, I feel sick to my core.

Charity, as in giving to the poor and needy is brilliant, agreed. But never, ever, full stop.

Yes, we'll likely never agree. I do however concur with your feelings towards The Royal British Legion.

I think one of the reasons religion is such a contentious issue is because of the various ways people have used it. Hear the word Religion or God and everyone will think of different things, everyone will have a different interpretation. My understanding, for what its worth, is that whenever someone of faith exercises violence or bigotry or similar forms of 'separation' on their fellow men and women then they have strayed from the religious life and into the world of ideology. You might argue religion itself is only ideology, but it isn't. It is an experience.

Also, I can't deny that, along with climate change and corruption, the violence and hatred expressed in the name of religion doesn't pose a huge threat.

[fishbowlhead]

I don't feel these two things are mutually exclusive. That's what I was trying to figure out - does this spiritual exercise benefit anyone other than those conducting it, even if we don't all become beggars? And the answer suggests that you are both right.

Zen Monkey and I can't both be right, that's not possible by the very laws of nature, well have to settle the discussion with a fight to the death, the odds on zen monkey are 4 quadrillion to one to win.

[wakka]

I always try my best!

Hehe, yes you’re quite strident, so I was just joking.

[Zen Monkey]

What this discussion really needs is more than just the one person defending religion. I'm tempted to bribe people to switch sides! Who wouldn't suspend disbelief and feign temporary faith in exchange for payment in organic turnips?

[Dogg Thang]

I used to have good discussions on religion here with Howiee. Hasn’t been around in a long time but he had very interesting points of view and knew his stuff when it came to his religion and we quickly developed a mutual respect. They were good conversations. But I have quite enjoyed debating religion... probably less so as I’ve got older but, back years ago, I’ve had Jehovah’s Witnesses ask to leave my house. Mormons were probably the most pleasant. I could pick apart a few key aspects of where their religion comes from and yet they were always lovely and, if you ever get them on time off, they don’t push their religion on you and are really polite. Of course it totally depends on the individual - I’m hugely generalising.

The only ones to ever scare me were Scientologists. People often ridicule them because of the whole Xenu thing but those people are devious and very well trained when it comes to pulling people in. They can present you with utter nonsense one moment and then have you questioning yourself the next. I have only ever talked to Scientologists once and I’d never do it again.

Anyway, as the years have gone on I have developed more respect for individual faiths and much less respect for organised religions. And the difficulty is that one can often justify or enable the other.

[fishbowlhead]

Charity is a wonderful thing. Full stop. No matter who is doing it. If you can get there on your own. Wonderful. If you require religion to poke you into charity. Wonderful. If you need philosophy to stir you into charity. Wonderful. I'm for anything and everything that gets people being a little nicer to one another.

I did not suggest that handing out vegetables to the poor is bad, I said that is something religious monasteries do with the vegetables that they grow because fishbowlhead suggested monks do nothing in return.

No, its not always good, did you know Help for Hero's is sitting on over 21 million in its bank?, they have withdrawn support from more and more organisations that needed the support while upping their own wages & employing their daughter on a few hundred k a year? oh they also drive around in new range rovers.

But i'm sure the limless vets will be fine.

[fishbowlhead]

The only ones to ever scare me were Scientologists. People often ridicule them because of the whole Xenu thing but those people are devious and very well trained when it comes to pulling people in. They can present you with utter nonsense one moment and then have you questioning yourself the next. I have only ever talked to Scientologists once and I’d never do it again.

Anyway, as the years have gone on I have developed more respect for individual faiths and much less respect for organised religions. And the difficulty is that one can often justify or enable the other.

Dangerous nut case cultists.

[Anpanman]

No, its not always good, did you know Help for Hero's is sitting on over 21 million in its bank?, they have withdrawn support from more and more organisations that needed the support while upping their own wages & employing their daughter on a few hundred k a year? oh they also drive around in new range rovers.

But i'm sure the limless vets will be fine.

Didn't know that and if true it's a shocker.

I usually drop some money in the collection boxes when they are at the supermarket, won't now.

[fishbowlhead]

Didn't know that and if true it's a shocker.

I usually drop some money in the collection boxes when they are at the supermarket, won't now.

That’s not including the 25m they have locked up in stocks, shares and various investments.

[Neon Ignition]

These days I tend to see belief in two lanes. Someone having a faith or belief in something is fine and can be beneficial to that individual... often depending on whether they came to that belief themselves or where indoctrinated to it as a child as most are. The second lane is organised religion which is a very different beast and subject.

It's really not a difficult logic leap to see belief in a god or 'something more' as being a comfort blanket from fear of death. From there it's really, really easy for the educated to abuse that faith to their own end be it for personal benefit or asserting control over the masses. Add some years and merge the two and *poof* religion is born. It takes very little observation to see just how much religions stink, no absolutely drippingly reek of human construct.

It's a big deviation from the original question to focus just on religion but it's no bad thing in anyway that religion is dying in westernised cultures.