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    It's why I'm suspicious that much has changed from last gen. I get why some might dislike some of Sonys recent moves but both companies operate somewhat differently. Like the servers issue, MS is more expansively resourced in this way to begin with and Game Pass dictates longer support is needed. If Sony drops it it's mostly likely because hardly anyone is using it. Hopefully they're picking up the need to communicate better though, we're still a bazillion miles from PS3 launch era Sony and they still beat MS in the end that gen too.

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      Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
      It's why I'm suspicious that much has changed from last gen. I get why some might dislike some of Sonys recent moves but both companies operate somewhat differently. Like the servers issue, MS is more expansively resourced in this way to begin with and Game Pass dictates longer support is needed. If Sony drops it it's mostly likely because hardly anyone is using it. Hopefully they're picking up the need to communicate better though, we're still a bazillion miles from PS3 launch era Sony and they still beat MS in the end that gen too.
      I think both companies are a million miles from their worst incarnations. I just think Sony isn't firing on all cylinders right now because they've let Jim Ryan lead the narrative and he's too business centric to realise the mistakes he's made in commentary. That's not massively dangerous but it has weakened them a little in news circles.

      Xbox I think are stronger than many give them credit for. Compared to the disaster of the Xbox One launch they are a completely different company with the right focus on games and building that ecosystem how they see fit. Really for me the only argument left on the table is we've yet to see the in-house teams bear fruit this gen but outside of that I've little complaints around in their overall plan.

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        Yep, Sony's social presence is definitely more distant... more business like these days. I'm just suspicious that from a media reporting angle drama and competition creates clicks and in the pursuit of that recent tiny things have felt blown up for that sake because the competitive gap between the two companies is so vast that Sony currently doesn't need to worry that much about MS.

        With Xbox, they're definitely in a good position but it's entirely down to the weight of the company behind them. In the same position with pretty much any other company behind them Xbox would have been discontinued as a platform many years ago. But whilst that safety net buys them all the time they want (presumably unless the heads in charge change and with it the patience for the gaming market) but in terms of generations I'm definitely in the camp that I think their success this generation will end up being based solely on profit.

        I feel GP is an amazing way to monetise the audience they have but I think unless there's a dramatic shift or an amazing show of force early on they're going to hit a brick wall in expanding GP far outside of Xbox consoles and I'm doubtful XSX will grow beyond the market for XBO at best either. They're making the right moves and sounds but years too late, if things are lining up now they'll be too behind the curve to catch up. They're obviously going to do better financially this time out but given how MS works I'd be curious what the higher ups within MS would be thinking if at the end of this new generation all signs where that the Xbox brand couldn't grow further than 30-40m people using either strategy.

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          Which links in to what I've been saying. Sony has the lions share of the market, so for MS to make gains they have to take custom from Sony; make the people that own a PS4 not buy a PS5 but a series console instead. If they can't, there is a real risk that they'll have 3 consoles on the bounce finish last.
          Will MS bother with another gen after that??

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            Originally posted by Cassius_Smoke View Post
            Which links in to what I've been saying. Sony has the lions share of the market, so for MS to make gains they have to take custom from Sony; make the people that own a PS4 not buy a PS5 but a series console instead. If they can't, there is a real risk that they'll have 3 consoles on the bounce finish last.
            Will MS bother with another gen after that??
            I think misses the point a little. The market isn't just these two companies fighting over the same users.

            Sony is bringing games exclusively to their consoles and Microsoft is in many ways bringing theirs to consoles, PC and Cloud... So it's not so clear cut really.

            The Xbox ecosystem Microsoft plans it doesn't begin and end with the Series consoles so I think making a decision to stick around another generation of consoles may be a given if they are reaching a wide enough audience, even if the console sales lag way behind the PS5.

            We also know Sony is bringing more titles to PC, revamping PS Now and delving back into mobile gaming... So whilst the strategies are very different both are diversifying their reach outside of consoles.

            It's really interesting times in the industry really which is why it's so exciting. Really I would argue it's Nintendo who are remaining the most old school and conventional but that's mainly because they've done online services so poorly in comparison and have the luxury of a console which bridges into handheld and has very little competition.

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              Certainly weird times in the industry. Sony are sticking to their guns but now eyeing PC as well for long term returns on old games.

              MS are literally giving their games away with gamepass.

              Nintendo have snuck into 2nd place without the perception of having done so and closing in on 90m Switch sales, but at the cost of having home & handheld consoles, though in reality their Switch idea is better for the company going forward.

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                After the Switch Pro stuff blew over without event as expected last week it's gone really quiet on the rumour front - possibly the least leaked pre-E3 ever... assuming there's anything of note being shown

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                  I'm weirdly not that bothered by E3 this year.

                  That could all change, of course, but I doubt it.

                  MS have nothing that interests me to the point where I am Xbox-less again after re-buying a Series S in March.

                  I haven't played on my Switch Lite for about 3 months - I've bought and loaded Animal Crossing but have put no time into it at all.

                  Sony's lack of E3 presence also takes away from the event. I'm hoping they do a State of Play blowout but can't see it.

                  Hohum.

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                    Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post

                    MS are literally giving their games away with gamepass.
                    Gamepass titles are arguably making far more money than they would traditionally, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Keeping a lot of players locked into an ecosystem that both promotes whatever they choose and prevents rival purchases (since getting an xbox with gamepass I have bought one PS4 game) is a pretty great idea. Even if they make less money, so does everyone else. It certainly makes £60+ games on the PS5 seem expensive.

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                      That's what I suspect, that Game Pass is brilliantly monetising games that otherwise would make much less. I strongly suspect it's not impacting the major $60-$70 title market though, hence the void of rush to get on there by such games.

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                        In terms of E3 anticipation, I'm probably misguidedly hoping it's got some goodness lined up.

                        For Xbox it feels like the void of noteworthy content has gone on forever. Gears 5 was alright for going through once and Flight Simulator is interesting to mess around with and experience but really it's been nearly three years since Horizon 4 and it's felt like a drought ever since, the reliance on Forza-Gears-Halo has hardly made Xbox interesting to begin with last gen but now even they're drifting away in frequency I'm very much in the mode that it's time for Xbox to become relevant again.

                        For Nintendo... kind of the same. Whilst they have steady releases they've drifted into stuff I frankly don't care about and it's been for a while now. The interesting ports have been drying up and I'm increasingly replaying stuff rather than enjoying new titles. Pokemon, Fire Emblem, old ports - bleh. What's the point in a more powerful revision of the hardware if before long Nintendo will be shovelling out stuff like Nintendogs again? I don't need much but after such a long time I need something.

                        Sony - well, even if they did attend we know what they'd show as their line up is ready out there to know about.

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                          I looking forward to it because MS really needs to show something and I'm hoping they do. If it's another crash and burn with a few Indie titles propped up with Halo and Forza I give up.
                          Sony will show the usual, but I want some release dates and they always tend to show something new each year. We know Q4 games but what's coming through 2022? They'll tease something i'm sure.
                          Nintendo will be Nintendo and show 20 minutes of one game and flash through a bunch of others I don't care about.

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                            Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                            That's what I suspect, that Game Pass is brilliantly monetising games that otherwise would make much less. I strongly suspect it's not impacting the major $60-$70 title market though, hence the void of rush to get on there by such games.
                            I think thats a stretch. “Some” titles might be doing well from micro transactions & paid content by being on there. Some other titles might do well just from the deal they get for being on there. Truth is your not going to know, probably a spidersweb of deals everything being on an individual basis.

                            One things for sure though, as a service it’s certainly not profitable and only exists because MS can afford to loose as much money as it takes, I wouldn’t be surprised if gamepass is being run as a tax write off until a point where it’s either deemed a success or scrapped.
                            Last edited by fishbowlhead; 10-06-2021, 08:29.

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                              I agree. Something like Game pass is going to be a collection of deals and sub-deals for each developer and game; throw Microsoft's expertise at making over complex licensing and payment strategies and you'll be looking at a web of **** I doubt even MS fully know. They probably have it running as a separate sub company so it can be amputated should they need to.

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                                That's actually a good point, now we've seen the extent to which Epic is throwing money around to try and make its store front happen and that's not even a subbed service the money expected from deals is clearly big for the types of games that will drive audiences to your platform.

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