Retro|Spective X03: Dreamcast

[wakka]

There's no denying that the PS2 ended up with way more content, but it launched 2 years later and was around for about 5 years longer!

What Sega achieved with the Dreamcast inside just 16 months in the West was really incredible. It's a console with bags of identity, too.

[Team Andromeda]

This makes me think, did anyone play OutTrigger? It was probably the only major Sega first-part DC game I've never played.

That game looked and sounded amazing, but the game wasn't good and should have been left in the Arcades imo

[Sketcz]

This thread makes me a bit depressed actually. Reading these fond recollections. The DC was the last console before a collective loss of innocence. I wish I could relive 1999 with all the ignorance of that time.

As for the contrasts against the PS2, I blame MGS2. Pretty much every bloke in my year at school was holding out for a PS2, despite my telling how great the DC was, for only one reason: the PS2 had MGS2.

I think only me and like two other guys got a DC. Everyone else got a PS2. I got one as well, but the DC was my favourite.

[Leon Retro]

What Sega achieved with the Dreamcast inside just 16 months in the West was really incredible. It's a console with bags of identity, too.

Yeah, it seemed longer because there were a consistent supply of top quality games. From Sonic Adventure, ChuChu Rocket!, Ferrari F355 Challenge, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5, Crazy Taxi, to Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia etc... etc... Sega delivered 'must-have' games across all genres over an 18 month period.

You also had great games from third party devs such as Soul Calibur, Resident Evil: Code Veronica, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Power Stone 1 & 2, NBA 2K series, Ikaruga etc.. etc...

They're just a few of the top quality games released for the machine over a relatively short period in gaming. It's really sad that lots of gamers decided to wait for the PS2 when the Dreamcast was offering so much goodness. It meant the Dreamcast failed commercially and we never got to see the tech pushed further over a usual 5 year period.

Everyone else got a PS2. I got one as well, but the DC was my favourite.

It's funny how 2 years seems like quite a long time when you're young. It felt like I had the DC for ages before getting a PS2 in 2001. I like both machines, but I'll never forget how special the Dreamcast was between 99-2001. A couple of wonderful years that I'll never forget.

[Neon Ignition]

I was so into the DC at the time that Sega announced they were pulling the system that about a week after that announcement I was in HMV and they were flogging their stock to get rid of the system and I picked up a spare new second back up system for £50 which also came with something like 3 games bundled with it.

[Leon Retro]

and I picked up a spare new second back up system for £50 which also came with something like 3 games bundled with it.

Yeah, the Dreamcast became dirt cheap once Sega pulled the plug. I remember getting tons of Dreamcast stuff for crazily cheap prices around 2003-2005. I have 3 arcade sticks that cost under £10 each.

It's funny to think how 'giveaway' the prices were on retro gear last decade. Managed to build a collection for a tiny fraction of the price it would all cost now. It's the consoles that mean the most to me -- as I've treated them all well and hopefully they'll be running for decades to come. Things like the GDEMU really help.

[Colin]

Retro was still fun at that point, and most importantly, fair. Now it's just a cesspit of scumbag resellers falsely inflating prices. I'd wager 95% of people buying retro games in this day and age don't even play a single one, straight to the display cabinet, or bragged about on ****ing youtube. More than happy in this day and age with something like my RPi set up, it's only about playing the games for me now, I couldn't be arsed to have a ton of retro systems taking up space.

[randombs]

It's really sad that lots of gamers decided to wait for the PS2 when the Dreamcast was offering so much goodness. It meant the Dreamcast failed commercially and we never got to see the tech pushed further over a usual 5 year period.

I don’t think it’s sad at all, and I say that as a Sega fan.

DC wouldn’t have lasted anywhere near what the PS2 managed so it wouldn’t have been as wise an investment. Speaking of which, it followed the Saturn! And regardless of how much the tech was pushed, the PS2 would have overtaken it soon enough. I don’t think it’s fair on gamers who rightly decided to spend their hard-earned money on a console with a stronger pedigree that would host better versions of their existing games.

Sega were buffoons who decided six buttons were a good idea. Imagine how many more games could have been released on DC if it just had enough buttons. I’m sure it would have lasted a few years longer if it was at a competitive price point. But nope, they pulled the plug after sponsoring Arsenal. And not even a single FIFA game to show for it.

[Leon Retro]

More than happy in this day and age with something like my RPi set up,

I mostly use my Pi or PC frontend. I've sold a lot of my games over the past few years. The only thing I cherish is my hardware collection that means a lot to me. I doubt I'll ever sell any hardware. Using Everdrives with all sorts of machines is a cheap way to play expensive games on real hardware.

I agree with you when it comes to emulation. I think lots of machines are emulated so well that you don't notice any issues. I wouldn't use emulation if it didn't feel authentic. I can definitely appreciate why some people prefer genuine hardware, but emulation doesn't deserve a negative image.

I look forward to a hardware like the Pi possibly running Dreamcast and Saturn games perfectly. Hopefully the emulators will be improved to be faster and more stable with newer Pi type of mini computers.

I don’t think it’s sad at all, and I say that as a Sega fan.

Well, it did sell quite well for a while and was a much liked system across the world of gaming. But it was always a machine that mostly attracted 'enthusiast' gamers who appreciated how special the tech and games were.

At the same time -- the PS1 was still getting top quality mass market games like Rollcage, Silent Hill and Driver. I remember that casual gamers I knew were still more than happy with the PS1, because games like Driver were pushing the tech and fun to play.

Actually, it's a shame that the Dreamcast didn't get an enhanced port of Driver. It really shows how lots of publishers didn't commit to the machine. EA were firmly focused on the PS2, so we didn't even see a basic port of a FIFA game. At least Americans got 2K NBA & NFL, which were really good.

I can see why people might think the Dreamcast couldn't have been pushed to compete with the PS2, but if it had been a huge success I think big publishers would have urged devs to push the tech to higher levels. We might have been quite amazed at what devs could have done with the Dreamcast if dev libraries had been optimised and improved over a normal lifespan. I don't think there's reason to think that the Dreamcast hardware couldn't have been pushed further and further over a 5-6 year lifespan. What we got was a paltry 18 months of proper development.

[Neon Ignition]

That's the interesting thing, it could have been that the Dreamcast would have tailed off no matter what but it's 18 months or so of sales suggested it was definitely going to be Sega's second most successful console and may have eventually out performed the Mega Drive's lifetime sales with the right positioning over another 3 or so years. It utterly crushed the Saturn in terms of commercial performance too so it largely was the poor state of Sega itself that killed the system rather than the PS2.

[Team Andromeda]

Retro was still fun at that point, and most importantly, fair. Now it's just a cesspit of scumbag resellers falsely inflating prices. I'd wager 95% of people buying retro games in this day and age don't even play a single one, straight to the display cabinet, or bragged about on ****ing youtube. .

That's the best thing about Mark's ace RetroCore, the fab Randomised Gaming and the likes of Game Shack. None of this 'look at me' with hundrends of unplayed games and the systems in the background, that is so common on YouTube these days and half the time they have't a clue what're they're on about and its all been googled.

[Leon Retro]

That's the interesting thing, it could have been that the Dreamcast would have tailed off no matter what but it's 18 months or so of sales suggested it was definitely going to be Sega's second most successful console and may have eventually out performed the Mega Drive's lifetime sales with the right positioning over another 3 or so years. It utterly crushed the Saturn in terms of commercial performance too so it largely was the poor state of Sega itself that killed the system rather than the PS2.

Well, the Dreamcast certainly didn't get enough support from big publishers. That really held the Dreamcast back when it came to the overall perception of the machine amongst the mainstream. I always felt it was a machine that 'enthusiasts' mostly embraced -- and that sort of person was still relevant in those days.

Lots of publishers and devs were still happy to focus on the PS1 between 1998-2000. They knew the PS2 was coming down the line, so Sony was the safe bet. I think publishers and lots of devs had a negative image of Sega at that point -- but very positive feelings towards Sony.

So as much as the Dreamcast was a powerful machine that took gaming to another level, Sony and its PlayStation brand was a major rival. The games development community had a love affair with Sony that was totally justified. On the other hand, you could appreciate why publishers and devs were cautious about getting involved with Sega and its new machine.

I also think the Dreamcast was released at a strange time. I don't think the mass market was very eager for a new console when the PS1 & N64 were still delivering good games. Ideally, the Dreamcast would have been released a while later in 2000 with beefier specs(more RAM would have helped). I think by 2000, even casual gamers were feeling 32-bit had become old hat.

It's easy to appreciate why the PS2 was always going to be the dominant console during that era of gaming. The Dreamcast was a great machine with lots of good games to enjoy, but for various reasons it was destined to fail. Maybe Sega never stood a chance whatever approach they took after all the negativity generated towards the brand after the Mega CD, 32X, and Saturn.

When it comes to pushing the Dreamcast hardware, I think it could have been pushed further and further over a 5 year period. We all know that's how development works -- devs gradually get more and more out of any given hardware. So that would have been the case for the Dreamcast. It's such a shame that mainstream development came to an abrupt end after a very short period.

None of this 'look at me' with hundrends of unplayed games and the systems in the background,

I'd rather listen to someone who actually plays and comments on games, even if they're just using roms. The guys who have tons and tons of mint games and machines but always ask for "donations" really annoy me. If someone is blatantly asking for money, it really puts me off. I just can't stand big ego sort of people.

It's fine for people to give tips as appreciation for videos they enjoy, but a creator shouldn't behave like a busker.

[Neon Ignition]

Retro|Spective 104 will be launched on Monday, make any donations out to...

[Leon Retro]

make any donations out to...

He'd probably get thousands of dollars through Patreon. Lots of people seem to love funding obsessive greed for gaming stuff.

Of course, I think it's fine for a gamer on YouTube to make money from adverts and tips, but manipulating people into donating money doesn't feel right.

[Anpanman]

Excluding the Amiga the DC is the best gaming device I've had, might not have had the trillions of games of the Sony's but loads of sheer quality titles as well as niche stuff that Sony (being a tech company) won't go anywhere near.

Amongst the many great memories the standout was when I imported the Japanese JSR from Tronix, I had a Sony WEGA 29" 4:3, booted it up in 60hz and as soon as the loading screen came on I knew I was in for a treat, once the music started and you got to see those lovely cel-shaded graphics you knew you were witnessing something really special.

Happy days indeed.