United Kingdom V: Son of a beach

[Hirst]

Airlines provide a very critical service in global trade/travel, but they bank on that every time they get into trouble. I would support bailing them out only on the condition that no shareholder dividends are paid until all the bailout money has been paid back, with interest.

[Asura]

So min wage is the worst but all those above min wage jobs should go? Oh along with all the ancillary businesses that operate under virgin airlines as well? Ok then.

Not at all. But we all know full-well that the money the airlines make is really going to their shareholders. This is for America Airlines, but still...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/18/america-airlines-bailout-shareholders-coronavirus

They're asking for a bailout in the US, but they paid 45$ billion to their shareholders in recent years.

If the government bails out Virgin, or any other airline, it should be in return for stock. It's our money, we should get it back.

[Dogg Thang]

The idea that someone would think bailing out giant companies for billions who pay stupid amounts to their execs while banking profits is comparable to guaranteeing a worker on the bread line a minimum wage to at least scrape a living on is really weird to me.

[Neon Ignition]

I don't know if it's the case in the UK but apparently in the US the support for Boeing is due to military contracts that the government wants to maintain

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/apr/02/loan-credit-card-payments-frozen-uk-financial-regulator-coronavirus

Loan and credit card payments might be frozen for three months to support those not helped by the government

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/02/boris-johnson-shows-covid-19-symptoms-still-and-may-stay-in-isolation

Johnson might have to extend his self-isolation because he's still symptomatic

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/02/no-10-seeks-to-end-covid-19-lockdown-with-immunity-passports

The governments plan to rush the closure of the UK lockdown is to issue mass testing using tests that aren't proven to work to check for immunity against a virus for which no proven immunity exists. Frontline carers, NHS staff and key workers will be the pawn sacrifices too made by the government with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/carluccios-and-brighthouse-collapse-into-administration-as-coronavirus-lockdown-hits-high-street

I'd missed, as well, that BrightHouse has collapsed

https://www.cityam.com/intu-warns-tenants-over-unpaid-rent-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/

And Intu, the owners of several shopping centres including the Trafford Centre, have only been able to collect 29% of retailer rents so have issued warnings however Intu was on the verge of collapse before the virus stopped the world so it's not hard to imagine the waiting game retailers are happy to now play.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-european-solidarity-sidelined-as-french-interests-take-priority-1.4216184?mode=amp

Three weeks. Apparently that's how long it takes for European solidarity to dissolve

[Dogg Thang]

Look, European solidarity is still strong and it’s built on total and unwavering mutual respect and trust but you just knew it would be the dirty French, didn’t you? We all knew it. It had to be the French.

[Asura]

https://www.cityam.com/intu-warns-te...irus-pandemic/
And Intu, the owners of several shopping centres including the Trafford Centre, have only been able to collect 29% of retailer rents so have issued warnings however Intu was on the verge of collapse before the virus stopped the world so it's not hard to imagine the waiting game retailers are happy to now play.

Every business is apparently "on the verge of collapse". Part of me wonders how much of this is actually true and how much of this is bailout fishing.

Either that, or maybe the capitalist mindset of maxing out efficiency to account for every single penny wasn't the best approach.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm sure a lot of it is creative accounting. Like how Return of the Jedi never made a profit so didn't have to pay people who get a share of the profit. Can't pay taxes on money they don't have. But now they don't have any money. Protect individuals who need it. Don't spend billions bailing out companies who perpetuate systems that need to be wiped clean and reinvented for a better world.

[Cassius_Smoke]

As it says in NGE, 'The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth'

[Brad]

Look, European solidarity is still strong and it’s built on total and unwavering mutual respect and trust but you just knew it would be the dirty French, didn’t you? We all knew it. It had to be the French.

I voted remain and I love the idea of European Unity but I thought before the Brexit vote that it can't really work can it? Asking a country to do something that is detrimental to it but beneficial to some others? There'd always have to be something else on the table, some sort of sweetener, in order to get agreement, and that sweetener must be detrimental to another nation and so it goes on.

[Dogg Thang]

It was really just a joke post. We’ve been through this one probably too many times during the Brexit stuff to go through again, at least for me personally. Beyond the odd light-hearted swipe at the French, that is!

[Asura]

I voted remain and I love the idea of European Unity but I thought before the Brexit vote that it can't really work can it? Asking a country to do something that is detrimental to it but beneficial to some others? There'd always have to be something else on the table, some sort of sweetener, in order to get agreement, and that sweetener must be detrimental to another nation and so it goes on.

To be fair, this was always the biggest problem with the EU - even us pro-EU die-hards like myself can admit to this. The EU expanded quickly, and bringing in many nations implied equality between nations that are not equal; generally it's OK if EU nations take some stuff out and put stuff back in, but those things need to be reasonably balanced.

This was what led to the near-Grexit. I don't know a lot about Greece, but when that was going on, the predominant opinion was that Greece has a massive tax-evasion problem. Like the attitude to tax evasion there is quite positive. I remember seeing a video from a drone at the time; pools in Athens on properties are taxed, and the operator said that a freedom-of-information request said there were ~2 pools in this suburb, but from the air you could easily see 40-50. Apparently Greece only got the Olympics due to creative accounting; like it caused big problems for their economy.

Now, these things are isolated examples, and I don't know how well they relate to the country as a whole; but it's still a point that the EU should've expanded more slowly, at a more measured pace. It's got literally forever to do it. There's no rush.

[Brad]

It was really just a joke post. We’ve been through this one probably too many times during the Brexit stuff to go through again, at least for me personally. Beyond the odd light-hearted swipe at the French, that is!

I have plenty of time to go through it all again. I realise you’re busy painting miniatures these days though

[charlesr]

Same within the UK though. England vs spend in Scotland etc.