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Canon-Strike IX: Star Trek

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    #46
    I have just been watching the episode "The Defector" and the line "I know a host of Romulan cyberneticists who would like to get their hands on you" is used in relation to Commander Data and Admiral Jarok in ten forward.

    Unusual as they make a big deal in Picard about retconning the Romulans aversion to AI and computers in all their systems.
    Last edited by CAPCOM; 24-06-2020, 18:27.

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      #47
      Wasn’t it one very specific group of Romulans? I think it was.

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        #48
        Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
        Wasn’t it one very specific group of Romulans? I think it was.
        I got the impression that it was a secret order of Romulans.

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          #49
          Originally posted by Cassius_Smoke View Post
          I got the impression that it was a secret order of Romulans.
          Yeah, exactly. They didn’t represent all Romulans. Far from it, as far as I gathered. I don’t think the intention was to retcon Romulans in general.

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            #50
            I am rewatching Picard this week and I thought there was a line similar to "did you never notice how?" in reference to all Romulan technology and computer cores. I will rewatch episode 2 on fast forward for it later as already onto 5.



            On reading this though I see what happened.


            In order to effectively perform the investigation, Laris reveals to Picard that his so-called knowledge of Romulan technology (like forensic molecular reconstruction) is totally irrelevant, as the Romulans always kept the full extent of their tech capabilities a classified secret, allowing their enemies to believe Romulan tech to be unreliable and faulty, when in fact it was far more advanced and capable than anyone outside the empire knew.

            Last edited by CAPCOM; 25-06-2020, 13:20.

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              #51
              Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
              After Paramount removed Roddenberry from creative control following the first film they set about effectively creating its opposite and dragging the budget down as low as they could go. Despite this the film they ended up with sports the honour of being the first movie to have a CG sequence in it and is often argued to be the peak of all the Star Trek films put out to date. Bringing back the original cast including Nimoy who insisted to be killed off this time, Khan crafted a personal tale for Kirk with high stakes and high costs.





              Nearly four decades on, is Wrath of Khan still the best of the franchises films and is it as important a part of the canon as the franchises films appear to think it is?

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                #52
                Wrath of Khan is superb and, yeah, it might just be the best of all the movies. It does so many things right, from embracing the ages of the main characters to really earning every dramatic moment in the movie. It's funny seeing every Trek movie since Nemesis essentially try to repeat this (villain has a personal grudge for some reason) and not one of them actually pulls it off. But also a testament to those original cast movies that almost none of them did that same thing.

                Watching The Motion Picture followed directly by this reveals the big budget drop but that's more than made up for by getting the fun, the heart and a lot of drama into this movie. It's really excellent.

                I was reading the 50 Year Mission books, which I'd recommend to any Trek fan, and it was funny to read Walter Koenig (Chekov) address the hole in this movie where the one person Kahn recognises is Chekov even though Chekov wasn't in the show when Kahn first appeared in it. It was actually Koenig who got the job of reading the script to check for inconsistencies and he spotted this right away but didn't want to say in case they reduced his role.

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                  #53
                  Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
                  Boldly making the character the central pin of the entire feature whilst simulatenously featuring very little Nimoy in the end. The third film acts as a direct sequel to Khan, following up on its dramatic ending and as such is arguably the strongest point in the canon of the original crew where the central bond of the crews friendship tied them together more so than the fact they share a ship together. The third film has always been a little shadowed by the popularity of the two entries released on either side of it but it's a simple tale of the cast versus the Klingon's and is interesting in that it's the only time the film franchise has recreated the series structure to any agree by serialising the story arc across three films. In the end we see the crew bring back their close friend but say goodbye once and for all to the Enterprise.




                  Where does the third film sit in your opinion of the movie arm of the Star Trek franchise and how important a film is it in the development of the characters and the franchise in general?

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                    #54
                    I've heard a lot of love for this one but, for me, it's my least favourite of the original cast movies. Somehow it feels the most dated, the cheapest, and it feels like it lacks some focus every time I rewatch it. Give it a week after watching before I'd struggle again to tell you what the movie is about and yet I can describe every other original cast movie in a couple of clear sentences. That said, it has some cool moments and a strong ending. But for me, I only ever tend to watch it if I'm doing a complete start to finish rewatch of the movies.

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                      I've heard a lot of love for this one but, for me, it's my least favourite of the original cast movies. Somehow it feels the most dated, the cheapest, and it feels like it lacks some focus every time I rewatch it. Give it a week after watching before I'd struggle again to tell you what the movie is about and yet I can describe every other original cast movie in a couple of clear sentences. That said, it has some cool moments and a strong ending. But for me, I only ever tend to watch it if I'm doing a complete start to finish rewatch of the movies.
                      Y'see... I would say that too... But V exists. You're totally right about the "description" thing; V has a much stronger high-concept ("A prophet from the wilderness takes over the Enterprise and leads them on a mission to confront their fears and meet God") whereas III just feels like "more II" but if you were to ask which one of out of V and III I would want to watch right now it'd always be III.

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                        #56
                        Yeah, I’m that rare person who actually enjoys Star Trek V and mainly for something that, due to the setup, 3 just can’t have - the friendship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is wonderful in the movie. It’s warm, genuine and really earned through their history. In spite of the silliness of that movie, it gives time and love to those characters. As well as some of the other reasons I don’t rate it, 3 is missing a central ingredient of classic Trek: Spock.

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                          #57
                          All of TOS movies are very watchable due to the Kirk/Spock/Bones dynamics. I’m not massively fond of 3 or 5, but the more I’ve watched them as an adult, the more I’ve enjoyed them. Khan remains the pinnacle of silver screen Trek, but all of the others have things to recommend them to varying extents. The KSB quality is a constant, though.

                          I’ve been rewatching Voyager recently, cherry picking episodes on Netflix. I didn’t realise at the time, but the acting quality in that show is wildly different. There’s some very good episodes, mind.

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                            #58
                            Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
                            Completing the trilogy arc that began with Khan, the fourth film see's the crew of the recently destroyed Enterprise make their way back to Earth just in time to discover that it too is about to be KO'd by a new threat. Whilst the Federation sits on and seems to wait for it to happen, the crew slingshot their way back in time to the 1980's in search of a whale. Cue the most economically made Star Trek of them all and another contender for fans most favourite entry. The film is lighter than the entries that came before it but at the same time doesn't carry anything within its plot that forms an key moment within the overall canon of Star Trek. Instead this film simply has fun with the friendly dynamics of the recently revived and reunited crew.




                            Is the Voyage Home an important part of the canon and how does it stack in the movie rankings?

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                              Whilst the Federation sits on and seems to wait for it to happen
                              Rewatching the movies recently, IV really made me consider how, during the films, it sometimes feels like the Enterprise is the only starship in the entire fleet. I know why from a storytelling perspective, but it cracks me up.

                              From a universe perspective, it makes me reflect on how in the original Trek, Starfleet felt much smaller as a force; unlike in TNG where it feels much larger.

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                                #60
                                Yep. Regardless of the size of Star Fleet, it made sense in TOS because they are on an exploration mission. Most Star Fleet places they encounter are remote outposts. Whereas in spite of sharing the same mission apparently, Next Gen always seemed well within established Federation space.

                                Anyway, I love Star Trek IV. It’s a huge amount of fun, the characters all get some great moments and I have always loved that it flies against almost every screenwriting book by having no bad guy presence. It’s very accessible too so, until the reboots, it’s no surprise to me that this movie is the most successful Trek movie. It’s so watchable.

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