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Canon-Strike IX: Star Trek

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    One holodeck accident. Across the entirety of Starfleet. That’s all it should have taken to get that system permanently fixed or shut down. But no. Like pretending that Data wasn’t a constant threat, they just carried on as normal and acted surprised when it all went wrong again.

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      Well, I’ve watched the episode with the dupe Voyager. The scene with the two Janeways was harrowingly awful. Bust up Janeaway looked like she wanted to seduce unharmed Janeway. It’s a pretty bleak episode all told, but hilarious how it’s forgotten about for the rest of the run.

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        I guess they get desensitised to that kind of death after realising that the transporter is a death machine which kills someone and then makes a copy.

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          Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
          I guess they get desensitised to that kind of death after realising that the transporter is a death machine which kills someone and then makes a copy.
          explained away in an episode of Enterprise, as part of that show's misguided war on leaving literally any funny little foiable unexplained.

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            Originally posted by Asura View Post
            explained away in an episode of Enterprise, as part of that show's misguided war on leaving literally any funny little foiable unexplained.
            Oh really? What was their explanation?

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              I think the Voyager episode were they go beyond Warp 10 and everything goes Altered States was voted the worst star trek episode of all time.

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                Was that the lizard one? It’s was utter bobbins. I quite like the technobabble stuff. It’s the perfect MacGuffin to get out of any situation. But that episode...? So much gash it would make Riker blush.

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                  That teleport explanation is exactly why I wouldn't use one in real life it they came to exist!

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                    Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                    Oh really? What was their explanation?
                    There was an episode where the guy who invented the transporter came onto the ship. It's never fully explained, but he has a bit of a monologue where he says...

                    "... and you should've seen the looks on their faces. I spent years trying to convince people it was safe. The questions! So many questions. Was it just a trick? Was it real? Was the person who materialised at the other end just a replicant, or a clone? It took me years to reassure people that they didn't die every time they used it!"

                    This isn't an actual quote but it's generally what he says.

                    But this was one of my pet hates about Enterprise; some of their creative decisions.

                    For instance, there's an episode of Deep Space Nine where they go back in time, and wind up in the midst of the classic Trek episode "The Trouble with Tribbles". It's a comedy episode, and pretty fun. During the episode, they see the classic Trek Klingons, with their rudimentary makeup, and Worf is there, and the other characters say...

                    "What happened? Some kind of genetic defect? A mutation?"

                    Worf snorts and just says,

                    "We do not discuss it with outsiders."

                    It's funny. It's a daft little self-aware moment which pokes a bit of fun at the older show.

                    In Enterprise, there is a multi-episode, 2-part arc where it's revealed that the Klingons obtained genetic modification research from Earth (that led to Khan's creation) and use them on Klingons, which causes them to look a bit more like the classic Trek Klingons as a side-effect.

                    And it really just feels as though they made that huge thing to explain away that one joke.

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                      Originally posted by Asura View Post
                      There was an episode where the guy who invented the transporter came onto the ship. It's never fully explained, but he has a bit of a monologue where he says...

                      "... and you should've seen the looks on their faces. I spent years trying to convince people it was safe. The questions! So many questions. Was it just a trick? Was it real? Was the person who materialised at the other end just a replicant, or a clone? It took me years to reassure people that they didn't die every time they used it!"
                      Ah okay. But they didn't go into how they're not actually dead? I suppose some of it is transporter inconsistency. Like, there was a Next Gen episode (I think) where we saw Barkley and maybe even Geordie inside and conscious while being transported and that seemed weird but at least it implied a continuity of consciousness. But the fact that the transporter made copies of people on more than one occasion implied that it doesn't use the person's original material to put a person together on the other side which means that, yep, they are killed and new copies are made.

                      Put it this way, I wouldn't be getting into a transporter.

                      But looking at wider Trek, what happened to Harry Kim and even now with what happened in Picard, it seems that reconciling it all would point more just to a society that defines the self in a different way and so being killed and replaced is just normal.

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                        Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                        But looking at wider Trek, what happened to Harry Kim and even now with what happened in Picard, it seems that reconciling it all would point more just to a society that defines the self in a different way and so being killed and replaced is just normal.
                        Yeah; I saw a video about this which made a similar point; namely, that the human body replenishes all your cells every 7 years. Regardless of whether that's just one of those things people say, I think it's more of a metaphor. I, you, everyone - we are, quite literally, not the people we were 10 years ago.

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                          Exactly why I don't like such plot points, it's just a bug that gets under my skin. Now I'm thinking of how at a cellular level my 5yr is two years away from kind of being a different one to the one we brought back from the hospital. **** transporters

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                            Originally posted by prinnysquad View Post
                            Was that the lizard one? It’s was utter bobbins. I quite like the technobabble stuff. It’s the perfect MacGuffin to get out of any situation. But that episode...? So much gash it would make Riker blush.
                            That's the one. To be honest Voyager had its fair share of crap episodes. I like Voyager too. That B&W Holo-deck adventure episode also springs to mind.

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                              Star Trek: Insurrection
                              Following on from the opening scenes and closing scenes of First Contact, the next story in the Star Trek canon is that of Insurrection. Following on from the well received previous entry, the studio instead went for something much more in line with an episode plot from the series assuming something lighter and easier going could replicate the success of The Voyage Home. The end result was a slow, middling film in which Picard has a romance whilst protecting a planet that the Federation won't.



                              What are your thoughts on the penultimate Next Gen movie?

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                                I forgot that we started with First Contact and that really threw me for a moment. For me, this one is simple even though I never remember any details of this film - Insurrection is a lower tier Next Gen episode on film. Definitely in the bottom of the Trek films if not right at the bottom for me. Unlike Generations which has Shatner and some good stuff in the opening or Nemesis which I think had the potential to be good but was badly botched, Insurrection is just a flat line throughout. Not absolutely awful but not a single thing worth watching over any other Trek movie.

                                Edit: one thing this thread has made me realise is the difference between what I get from TOS and what I get from Next Gen. In the movies for me, the every single Next Gen movie is below all the TOS movies. And yet when I watch a random Trek episode, it will be split pretty evenly between TOS and Next Gen, and probably favours Next Gen. And what I’ve realised is this - Next Gen had some superb stories and maybe, in many cases, had more interesting and deeper stories than the original series. But the characters from TOS are so much more entertaining. So I’ll watch and really enjoy a great Next Gen episode. But a poor Next Gen episode (or middling to rubbish movie) isn’t worth my time. Whereas I can watch the worst of TOS episodes and think the story is godawful and yet still be entertained by the characters. And even a weaker movie (such as Trek 3 for me) still brings the fun with that original cast.
                                Last edited by Dogg Thang; 11-08-2020, 08:15.

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