The Amiga 1200: What if it could have ran Doom?

[Leon Retro]

I was playing Doom on the SNES(powered by the Super FX 2 chip) and it made me think that the Amiga 1200 should have been able to run Doom and similar style games. Commodore did such a bad job with what should have been a cutting edge computer.

Why wasn't it as capable as the Atari Jaguar when it came to running Doom style games? If a base A1200 could have run them well, it would have been a worthy successor to the A500. The Amiga brand deserved far better.

Do you think Commodore would have found big success with the A1200 if it could have ran Doom style games really well?

[CMcK]

Doom may have been possible on the A1200 given there were plenty of clones on the system but it would have required a ground up rewrite which wouldn’t have been financially viable given the size of the Amiga market at the time. Accelerated systems would have had an easier time of it heck just adding some more RAM to an A1200 is a big help. The lack of chunky graphics support was a killer though. The Amiga uses planar graphics although the CD32 does have a chunky to planar conversion feature in hardware.
Amazingly there is a Doom clone for the A500 in development just now showing what could have been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSlu3W0tMyI&feature=emb_title

SNES Doom isn’t really running on the console it’s basically running on a co-processor in the cart which is way more powerful than the CPU in the console itself. And the game is really cut down in various ways. Still impressive though.

[Leon Retro]

Doom may have been possible on the A1200 given there were plenty of clones on the system but it would have required a ground up rewrite which wouldn’t have been financially viable given the size of the Amiga market at the time.

Well, Doom style A1200 games like Alien Breed 3D and Gloom are pretty weak in all areas next to Doom. The hardware was far from ideal for this type of pseudo-3D FPS.

SNES Doom isn’t really running on the console it’s basically running on a co-processor in the cart which is way more powerful than the CPU in the console itself. And the game is really cut down in various ways. Still impressive though.

Yeah, I should have mentioned that I wasn't thinking the base SNES hardware could run Doom.

I was just playing SNES Doom and I thought, "The Super FX 2 chip, which is a cheap but quite impressive bit of kit, is doing a decent job of running Doom on the SNES." Then I thought about how the Atari Jaguar- a console from 1993 - runs a very nice port of Doom.

So when you think about how cutting edge the A500 was for 2D graphics in the mid-to-late '80s. it's a shame that the A1200 wasn't cutting edge for pseudo-3D Doom style games in the early to mid '90s. What was the point of the A1200 in 1993? It may be able to display 256 colours on screen, but the rest of the specs just weren't impressive for the time.

If you look at something like the really cheap Super FX 2 chip, it can actually run a decent looking, playable version of Doom. The Atari Jaguar launched for $250 in 1993 and sports good hardware for pseudo-3D FPS games. Just look at how impressive Jaguar Doom is.

As a big fan of the A500, I remember buying the A1200 and it soon felt like a pointless computer. It didn't bring anything cutting edge and exciting to the table. If it could have ran Doom and clones really well, it would have done the Amiga brand proud, so therefore would have probably sold like hot cakes. Instead, it struggled to run Doom style games, which were gradually becoming the 'must-play' games of the era.

[CMcK]

The A1200 was something of a bodge. The chipset wasn’t the one it should have contained but Commodore were all over the shop with R&D. It was lacking bandwidth especially to the custom chips and the CPU really should have been an 68030 by then. The Amiga’s strength in 1985 was its custom hardware which as the years went on was an anchor holding it back. If the AAA chipset had been ready in time it would have been a far better position to compete with PCs. But they canned that for another chipset called Hombre which was a clean break from old Amiga tech.

[Leon Retro]

The A1200 was something of a bodge. The chipset wasn’t the one it should have contained but Commodore were all over the shop with R&D. It was lacking bandwidth especially to the custom chips and the CPU really should have been an 68030 by then. The Amiga’s strength in 1985 was its custom hardware which as the years went on was an anchor holding it back. If the AAA chipset had been ready in time it would have been a far better position to compete with PCs. But they canned that for another chipset called Hombre which was a clean break from old Amiga tech.

Yeah, from what I've read, there were a lot of factors that went against the A1200(or whatever it could have been). It's such a shame that the AAA(or something similar) chipset didn't end up being Commodore's 32-bit computer.

When I see what the Super FX 2 -- and especially the the Jaguar -- could do with Doom, I think a 32-bit Amiga should have been able to better them. I guess the management in control of Commodore didn't have a clear vision when it came to what sort of games would become all the rage from 1993 onwards: pseudo-3D FPSes.

The A500 was a very relevant machine for its time, but the A1200 felt completely irrelevant once people realised that it couldn't compete with what the PC was delivering. The 32-bit Amiga should have been able to run Doom and similar games really well. That's the style of game the computer market was very focused on from 1993 onwards.

[Team Andromeda]

I love the Amiga 1200. My Scottish mate Huw still has his and when us Welsh go up to Edinburgh to we all play Sensible Soccer on his 1200. Its a shame we never got to see what the best Japanese developers could so in the Amiga or the 1200

[Leon Retro]

I love the Amiga 1200.

I wish I could have loved the A1200, but it felt completely underwhelming back in the day. I'd already seen 256 colours on screen with the SNES. The A1200 tech just wasn't cutting edge in any way, so it went against the legacy of the A500.

I'll always have fond memories of my days with the A500 -- it was such a great machine during the 16-bit era. I still enjoy some its best games.

It is a shame that the A500 wasn't a thing in Japan, as I'm sure talented Japanese devs could have done some cool stuff with the tech. BC Kid, by Factor 5, is a nice port of the PC Engine classic .

[Team Andromeda]

I wish I could have loved the A1200, but it felt completely underwhelming back in the day. I'd already seen 256 colours on screen with the SNES. The A1200 tech just wasn't cutting edge in any way, so it went against the legacy of the A500.

I'll always have fond memories of my days with the A500 -- it was such a great machine during the 16-bit era. I still enjoy some its best games.

It is a shame that the A500 wasn't a thing in Japan, as I'm sure talented Japanese devs could have done some cool stuff with the tech. BC Kid, by Factor 5, is a nice port of the PC Engine classic .

I never looked to compare the Amiga to the consoles myself. Always thought it was great to have both (if you had the money) as they offered such a different gaming experience

[samanosuke]

I never looked to compare the Amiga to the consoles myself. Always thought it was great to have both (if you had the money) as they offered such a different gaming experience

+1

My mate used to take the piss about how the abysmal Shinobi Amiga port compared to Revenge on the MD. He erroneously (perhaps fanboyishly) claimed that the MD was way ahead of the A500 in terms of technical prowess.

As for me, I enjoyed what the MD had to offer as I owned one, but games such as F1GP, Monkey Island, Cryo’s Dune and Frontier: Elite 2 were games that simply weren’t possible on a home console at the time.

Was great to own both an Amiga and a 16-bit console back then to enjoy the best of both worlds.

[Leon Retro]

I never looked to compare the Amiga to the consoles myself. Always thought it was great to have both (if you had the money) as they offered such a different gaming experience

Well, this topic is focused on how the A1200 wasn't a very relevant machine for the time, because its hardware fell short of the sort of power needed to run pseudo-3D FPS games well. I'm thinking the A1200 should have been at least as capable as the Atari Jaguar, which retailed for $250 in 1993. Just look at how good the Jag port of Doom is.

When it comes to the A500 -- I agree that it offered its own distinct games library and features. I'm glad that I had an A500 to go alongside the 16-bit consoles, because I have great memories of playing Stunt Car Racer, Dungeon Master, Kick Off 2, Lotus Challenga 1 & 2, Battle Squadron, Lionheart, Monkey Island, Sensi Soccer etc.. etc... I still enjoy the best games the machine has to offer, because they have a distinct Amiga vibe that fills me with nostalgia for old school British and Euro games.

I really wish the A1200 had been a truly impressive successor to the A500, but I feel it completely failed to be a relevant machine in an era where more advanced 3D games were becoming popular. If the tech had been able to run Doom style games really well, I'm sure the A1200 would have attracted far more attention.

+1

My mate used to take the piss about how the abysmal Shinobi Amiga port compared to Revenge on the MD. He erroneously (perhaps fanboyishly) claimed that the MD was way ahead of the A500 in terms of technical prowess.

The horror of terrible ST ports that in no way used the Amiga tech properly. That was the norm for many years until publishers felt the Amiga was worth treating with respect. It really is sickening how truly crap a lot of Amiga arcade ports were. But at least we got a few really nice arcade ports that actually showed how capable the Amiga was in that regard.

Was great to own both an Amiga and a 16-bit console back then to enjoy the best of both worlds.

It was great how the A500 was a cheap -- and in many ways -- better alternative to the PC. But the A1200 ended up being very weak tech that couldn't compete with that the PC was doing. It's such a shame that the A1200 wasn't the clever, cutting edge tech it should have been. It totally failed to be relevant hardware in a market that was moving away from 2D gaming. I think it should have at least been comparable to the Atari Jaguar hardware when it comes to the ability to run pseudo-3D games like Doom.

[samanosuke]

I agree with you, but it’d have needed to have some pretty powerful custom 3D chips to compete with the the 32-bit consoles that arrived on the scene shortly after (although possibly an ‘040 + RAM upgrade together with the 3D custom chipset might bring it closer in terms of raw polygon performance).

Just a simple 3D processor to play the likes of Doom and X-Wing might’ve brought it more time, but by the time the PSX landed gaming really leapt into the next generation.

[samanosuke]

But the A1200 ended up being very weak tech that couldn't compete with that the PC was doing. It's such a shame that the A1200 wasn't the clever, cutting edge tech it should have been. It totally failed to be relevant hardware in a market that was moving away from 2D gaming.

Yep, it was almost if Commodore planned it to be a cost-effective upgrade for existing A500 users rather than a product to gain market share. The fact they kept the same Paula sound chip and didn’t even bother to at least double the amount of channels speaks volumes (in a robotic synthesised voice hehe) about their vision (or lack thereof) of it being a truly next generation machine.

[Team Andromeda]

+1

My mate used to take the piss about how the abysmal Shinobi Amiga port compared to Revenge on the MD. He erroneously (perhaps fanboyishly) claimed that the MD was way ahead of the A500 in terms of technical prowess.

As for me, I enjoyed what the MD had to offer as I owned one, but games such as F1GP, Monkey Island, Cryo’s Dune and Frontier: Elite 2 were games that simply weren’t possible on a home console at the time.

Was great to own both an Amiga and a 16-bit console back then to enjoy the best of both worlds.

It was great to have both. I loved the Amiga/ST for the flight sims and early 3D polygon games like Elite 2 and the awesome Stunt Car Racer

[Leon Retro]

I agree with you, but it’d have needed to have some pretty powerful custom 3D chips to compete with the the 32-bit consoles that arrived on the scene shortly after (although possibly an ‘040 + RAM upgrade together with the 3D custom chipset might bring it closer in terms of raw polygon performance).

I think the Jaguar being able to run Doom really well highlights how lacking the A1200 hardware was. The Jag was worked on for quite a few years before its 1993 release. The people behind it managed to create a machine that was adept at running pseudo-3D FPS games to a similar standard as to what you were seeing on the PC.

Compare games like Gloom & Alien Breed 3D on the stock A1200 to Doom & AvP on the Jaguar, and you can really see how underpowered the A1200 tech is for pseudo-3D games.

Just a simple 3D processor to play the likes of Doom and X-Wing might’ve brought it more time, but by the time the PSX landed gaming really leapt into the next generation.

I don't think the Jaguar has 3D hardware comparable to what would come later with the PlayStation and 3D graphics cards for the PC. So we're not talking about needing something way ahead of its time. No, the A1200 just needed the ability to run pseudo-3D games reasonably well. Being able to run Doom well would have really impressed people and made the computer far more attractive and relevant. Instead, you ended up with a follow up to the A500 that didn't feel special at all.

The fact they kept the same Paula sound chip and didn’t even bother to at least double the amount of channels speaks volumes (in a robotic synthesised voice hehe) about their vision (or lack thereof) of it being a truly next generation machine.

Yeah, it's funny how the A1200 has the same sound chip as the A500. The whole design of the A1200 feels half-hearted. The hardware seemed so lacklustre next to what the PC was doing and also modern consoles like the 3DO and Jaguar. The Jaguar was released in 1993 for $250, so its not like that sort of hardware was expensive.

It's a shame that Commodore didn't manage to deliver a 32-bit computer that truly impressed and inspired people. There must have been serious issues behind the scenes that led to the A1200 being such a lacking piece of kit.

[Brad]

The business people at commodore screwed the entire company basically. The A4000 was actually worse than the 3000 in a number of areas. It wasn’t engineering that messed up.