Xbox Series S/X: Thread 02

[fuse]

Here's my stream of consciousness upon reading this post and trying to make sense of things. I am having to coach myself through understanding these, like some kind of technophobe grandpa.

If the next-gen Xbox games weren't compatible with the XBO line then Series S would actually make some sense.

Right - so the "XBO line" is the Xbox One, the Xbox One S, and the Xbox One X. I think I am understanding now that all 'next gen' games are compatible with these. I've looked some up on Amazon and on the boxes for these now have additional messaging saying "Xbox Series X - Xbox One". Are they now going to change it again before release to "Xbox Series X/S - Xbox One"? My expectation is that if new games are aiming to make use of the shiny new piece of hardware that's way more powerful, we're now ushering in a new age of games running like dog plops for people on the "XBO" line of hardware, though, despite it being the prominent branding on the box.

Now, discontinuing the XBO line and replacing it with the Series S makes another kind of sense but that is undermined when MS has the Series X increasingly becoming something of a laughing stock when its biggest launch titles look visually so weak and are being memed rather than hyped.

I've seen various people taking the piss out of Halo Infinite's graphics, so I get the drift of what's being suggested here. I am assuming this is just early-in-dev, poorly curated screenshots though, or bad art assets, rather than an actual condemnation of the power of the Series X, right?

If you aren't fussed about the visuals then why not stick with the XBO? If you are then why get a Series X that isn't being utilised? It's a whole debate that the Series S doesn't even fit into because at this point it doesn't actually do anything for anyone.

Is it going to be just visuals, or actual performance though? I get what you're saying though, that the Xbox Series S is a non-upgrade, particularly for people that bought a Xbox One X. I had to correct this twice because I referred to the latter system as the "Xbox One Series X", and the former as the "Xbox One Series S".

A secondhand XBX remains the best option on the table for the cost conscious Xbox buyer but I imagine most will think 'I will only buy one console' and will instead save their money for one with a different name.

Do you mean the Xbox One X? Is this not the one that they have forcibly removed from sale?

----

What I'm trying to get at here, is that I am struggling to make sense of these different product lines and their purpose, and think the naming is confusing. This is multitudes worse than "my non-gaming relative got confused between a Wii and WiiU in Game". Sorry, but iPhones (higher number = better) aren't a good equivalent, and though crap naming conventions in graphics cards / CPUs are a given, this is one of many reasons that people buy consoles rather than spending weeks researching what parts they need to buy for a computer. I thought "Xbox Series X" was bad enough, but if we're adding an "Xbox Series S" into the mix too, they really need to improve the branding / messaging around these.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Another concern is that game developers will have to think about making sure game runs on a number of consoles now. Even if MS drop the One eventually, they will still have to make some development choices to ensure the game they are making runs on less powerful seriesS.
Sony does not have that problem.

[wakka]

I'll try and make myself useful on here for once.

Right - so the "XBO line" is the Xbox One, the Xbox One S, and the Xbox One X.

Correct.

I think I am understanding now that all 'next gen' games are compatible with these.

That's what MS have said. For the first two years, all Series X games will work on the whole XBO lineup. Whether that will prove to be true or not, who knows.

I've looked some up on Amazon and on the boxes for these now have additional messaging saying "Xbox Series X - Xbox One". Are they now going to change it again before release to "Xbox Series X/S - Xbox One"?

Just seen these for the first time myself. Here's one if anyone's curious:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Watch-Legion-Limited-Exclusive-Amazon-co-uk/dp/B07SDPLV9S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=xbox%2Bseries%2Bx&qid=1597061241&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWEFYRVBKV1lDR0pMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjI5Mzc3WE1YT0FSNjNHQkFJJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3NTA3MDVPTllDQ0FMQzhSWU8md2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

No idea if they'll change the box to reflect the Series S as well, if that's indeed coming this Xmas. But this software will deffo work on the Series S as well.

My expectation is that if new games are aiming to make use of the shiny new piece of hardware that's way more powerful, we're now ushering in a new age of games running like dog plops for people on the "XBO" line of hardware, though, despite it being the prominent branding on the box.

Quite possible. I think when you look at how rudimentary Halo looks for a next gen game, it kinda shows how they're having to scale across about 8 years of tech in a single game.

Something like Flight Simulator I honestly think is gonna get held back until we're past the two year cross-gen point they've promised, as I think it would probably run really badly on XBO.

Most third party games will probably run OK on the older machines as they will be designed primarily for the massive PS4/XBO userbase, and will just look a bit slicker and smoother on the new machines.

I've seen various people taking the piss out of Halo Infinite's graphics, so I get the drift of what's being suggested here. I am assuming this is just early-in-dev, poorly curated screenshots though, or bad art assets, rather than an actual condemnation of the power of the Series X, right?

Series X is deffo really powerful. Halo's graphics are really underwhelming IMO and I don't think are at all representative of what it'll be capable of eventually. Badly curated screenshots haven't helped either but it's not a graphical showcase either way.

Is it going to be just visuals, or actual performance though? I get what you're saying though, that the Xbox Series S is a non-upgrade, particularly for people that bought a Xbox One X. I had to correct this twice because I referred to the latter system as the "Xbox One Series X", and the former as the "Xbox One Series S".

This is directed at [MENTION=345]Neon Ignition[/MENTION] so I'll leave it to him.

Do you mean the Xbox One X? Is this not the one that they have forcibly removed from sale?

Yes he does mean the One X, which is now discontinued as of July.

Is that useful?! I have no idea!

[Neon Ignition]

I've seen various people taking the piss out of Halo Infinite's graphics, so I get the drift of what's being suggested here. I am assuming this is just early-in-dev, poorly curated screenshots though, or bad art assets, rather than an actual condemnation of the power of the Series X, right?

I think Series X is generally considered to be top tier in terms of the tech itself but for Halo: Infinite it just looks graphically weak and as a game coming out in November there's some room for improvement but really it's just a case that the game is resolutely and Xbox One game being used to shift Series X hardware.

Performance will be a key difference but this is where the Xbox One X wades in and blindsides the Series S once again. There's little reason for the early era Xbox stuff to not run with perfectly fine performance on XBX rendering the Series S useless. Some might point to stuff like some added ray-tracing or 120fps support on the new hardware but really that's going to matter to an insanely small percentage of the market and even then if you care about those you'd be saving for a Series X to begin with.


Essentially it's all future Xbox releases for the foreseeable future run on:

Xbox One
Xbox One S
Xbox One X
Xbox Series S
Xbox Series X

With the red coloured ones discontinued and replaced by the Series S. Though again, the second hand market awaits the cost mindful and the Xbox One X is falling nicely in price.

[dataDave]

I'm going to wait for the Series XS.

As TA says, by that point they will actually have some exclusives out.

[Neon Ignition]

Remember when game boxes for cartridge games used to say on the back how many MB the carts where? They could bring that back but for how many Flops the game uses.

[CMcK]

Another concern is that game developers will have to think about making sure game runs on a number of consoles now. Even if MS drop the One eventually, they will still have to make some development choices to ensure the game they are making runs on less powerful seriesS.
Sony does not have that problem.

The Series S will likely be the same as the X just with adjusted specifications, probably lower RAM and smaller GPU, to suit the 1080p output. The games will be just the same on both systems apart from the resolution. Shouldn’t be difficult for developers used to making games scale across a huge range of console and PC hardware.
Saving a far bit of money on die size, RAM, PSU, cooling, HDMI controller, shipping and case size will add up to a good chunk of savings on the bill of materials for the series S. A lower priced entry point for the new generation will hopefully get more people on board quicker than normal and give a good sales base for games to be developed without taking cross generation development into consideration.
The series S is probably just as beneficial to Sony as Microsoft in that respect.

[Neon Ignition]

I'm curious as to how low they can drive Series S's price point because if it doesn't come in steeply - and I mean steeply - below that of PS5 then it'll be incredibly easy for Sony to market PS5 as good value simply because you don't need to buy the console again to upgrade to 4K. That, and the people most likely to want a Series S will be pre-existing XBO/XBX owners with the least to gain from the system.

[dataDave]

Anyone here think the Series S will outsell the Series X? I don't see any software on the horizon that's demanding a Series X.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I'm curious as to how low they can drive Series S's price point because if it doesn't come in steeply - and I mean steeply - below that of PS5 then it'll be incredibly easy for Sony to market PS5 as good value simply because you don't need to buy the console again to upgrade to 4K. That, and the people most likely to want a Series S will be pre-existing XBO/XBX owners with the least to gain from the system.

Exactly. You could be playing COD on the seriesS and then go to your mates house who has a PS5 and it looks better. If the PS5 only costs £50 more your going to feel like you cheaped out. Its going to have to come in at £300 max, but then it bumps up against the cost of a OneX and the Nintendo Switch. Any more and it rubs up to the PS5.

[fuse]

[MENTION=5490]wakka[/MENTION] thanks - after a morning dedicated to trying to make sense of this all I think I might be getting there!

Essentially it's all future Xbox releases for the foreseeable future run on:

Xbox One
Xbox One S
Xbox One X
Xbox Series S
Xbox Series X

With the red coloured ones discontinued and replaced by the Series S. Though again, the second hand market awaits the cost mindful and the Xbox One X is falling nicely in price.

Hang on - they've discontinued the Xbox One and the Xbox One X, but not the Xbox One S? So right now, the only one you can buy new is the S, which wasn't even the more powerful one?

[Neon Ignition]

I'd wager that the Series S sells less than the Series X, and is even retired within two years. It feels like it's the Core model of the system and exists pretty much solely for undercutting reasons only. I'd expect what would normally be the Series X Slim in a couple of years time will be released as the Series S2. Honestly, it's hard to see how the Series X will set sales alight at the moment so I'd be amazed if the Series S has that much momentum post-launch period, probably why MS continues to be so shy about it given it's supposed to be a key weapon against Sony.

[Neon Ignition]

@wakka thanks - after a morning dedicated to trying to make sense of this all I think I might be getting there!



Hang on - they've discontinued the Xbox One and the Xbox One X, but not the Xbox One S? So right now, the only one you can buy new is the S, which wasn't even the more powerful one?

The Xbox One X is still in stock in places but they're cutting it off to make room for the Series S (conflicts with it too much). The One S exists I think purely because it's now the budget range model, like having a Super Slim out whilst the next-gen makes waves

[wakka]

Yeah, you can still get a One X right now, but brand new stock will dry up soon. It's too close in power and price to the Series S to keep around.

As NI says, the One S is going to be kept around as the super budget option for now.

The original Xbox One was discontinued a long time ago, when the One S first came out. Like how the fat PS3 was discontinued when the Slim dropped.

[nonny]

I would wager that in the next 18 months new games will be only for the Series S/X. I know MS said two years but it's looking likely that will be brought forward.

Also note that it's only MS first party this applies to. Sure AC Valhalla and some other titles arriving soon are offering smart delivery "buy once" upgrades but I don't believe MS is going to enforce developers outside their own studios to work up and down the hardware scale of outside of the two new consoles.

During that same time I would expect the One S to be phased out as well. The One X is gone already. It seems like the One S is running on borrowed time at the bottom of the pile.

So we're going to be left with Series S and Series X eventually. It's a matter of time.

As for how games look/scale across these consoles. Wait for reviews and comparisons from people smarter than us... Digital Foundry I am sure will be all over Halo Infinite when the end product hits all platforms. Then we will see.