Xbox Series S/X: Thread 02

[wakka]

I totally get where Brad’s coming from. The industry has collectively decided to spend all the new processing available to quadruple resolution - but it’s interesting to think how that extra power might be used if they hadn’t.

[Brad]

Yep. For years and years we struggled for more realistic graphics and then we just stopped. I’m not even saying we should go for more realism necessarily but in genres where we are able to do so we’ve carried on e.g driving and flight simulators. Gran turismo , forza, ms flight sim and DCS look real, and I’m glad they do. It seems as some point though we decided that making games that play like movies e.g uncharted, last of us, can never be made to look real so let’s give up. I wonder if the power used to create 4k60 were instead directed into making a 480p game that actually looked real if it could be done?

[dataDave]

A.I. will get us to that point, eventually. DLSS is already working wonders on cleaning up image quality and performance.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Yep. For years and years we struggled for more realistic graphics and then we just stopped. I’m not even saying we should go for more realism necessarily but in genres where we are able to do so we’ve carried on e.g driving and flight simulators. Gran turismo , forza, ms flight sim and DCS look real, and I’m glad they do. It seems as some point though we decided that making games that play like movies e.g uncharted, last of us, can never be made to look real so let’s give up. I wonder if the power used to create 4k60 were instead directed into making a 480p game that actually looked real if it could be done?

Breaking the uncanny valley with current hardware simply isn't possible. Forza Horizon looks pretty damn close at points, but in motion your brain knows it's not real.
Facial animation needs the biggest improvement I think. People still look like playdoh.

[Team Andromeda]

Yep. For years and years we struggled for more realistic graphics and then we just stopped. I’m not even saying we should go for more realism necessarily but in genres where we are able to do so we’ve carried on e.g driving and flight simulators. Gran turismo , forza, ms flight sim and DCS look real, and I’m glad they do. ?

You're making less sense than Jim Ryan these days. I think maybe you should play Death Stranding, Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 2020 and tell me they aren't going all out to make the human's and most of the environments as real as possible on current hardware, same goes for Resident Evil 7.

You can't expect Weta or ILM CGI levels of realism in a console box

[Brad]

You're making less sense than Jim Ryan these days. I think maybe you should play Death Stranding, Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 2020 and tell me they aren't going all out to make the human's and most of the environments as real as possible on current hardware, same goes for Resident Evil 7.

You can't expect Weta or ILM CGI levels of realism in a console box

I’m not making sense? Everyone gets what I’m saying but you mate.

Death stranding does not look real. It looks a tiny tiny bit more real than last gen did. Saying it’s just not possible on console hardware would have some meaning if it came from a veteran graphics engineer. From you (or me) that statement holds zero value. How could you possibly know it’s not possible? Or are you actually a graphics engineer, in which case I bow to your superior knowledge.

[nonny]

I think the best game that broke the uncanny valley look was LA Noire.

I remember thinking it was amazing and a huge leap forward and then of course it was so expensive it shuttered the company.

[EvilBoris]

This gen will bring another shift in realism, particularly around lighting. There are a coupe of of Archviz renders I use at work now, 2 of them use unreal engine, one uses RTX.
The difference in how real one looks and how the other looks like a video game is pretty pronounced

[Leon Retro]

When you look closely at racing games like Forza Motorsport 7, Gran Turismo Sport, and Projects Cars 2, you can see that the environments look really rough and pretty basic. Forza Horizon 4 has the best looking graphics in a racing game, but you can still see plenty of room for improvement.

Improving the lighting in racers is vital. Adding more environmental effects to make things look less sterile is also important. I hope devs are focused on those features.

I think we'll see nice improvements in details and environmental effects with next gen racers, but we won't see incredible realism. We'll have to wait for another generation before devs can really embrace ray tracing and other advanced techniques to make racers look really close to reality.

I'm not being negative though. I think we'll see a nice upgrade in racing game visuals over last gen. Forza Horizon 5 will probably look stunning.

[nonny]

https://youtu.be/QRkjzA8hQqM

Good little codemasters interview from Digital Foundry... Appreciate the honesty from a development house.

[Neon Ignition]

The racing track detail thing has long been one of the biggest issues going. For an absolute age now too many have been carrying over track side detail that reeks of PS2/PS3 era. The focus has long been on the cars to such a degree that is invisible to the player whilst the courses themselves are often dull as hell to look at and often ugly as well. As much praise as GT Sport, Forza 7 etc get they're games that I feel look decent, not amazing. It's impressive as hell how real they can look in the replays but I don't want to view a reply in order to be impressed at that level. For next-gen I'd happily see all the car models be left as is and focus shift to AI, track design variety and detail and other small details like weather, dust, mud etc. The one glimmer of hope is the brief footage of Forza 8 which if reliable looked to be a step above Forza 7 in that regard.

[Leon Retro]

For next-gen I'd happily see all the car models be left as is and focus shift to AI, track design variety and detail and other small details like weather, dust, mud etc.

Yeah, car models look really nice these days. But even when you watch the reasonably impressive replays, it feels like the environment is from a bygone generation. So when your eyes wander from the beautiful car models, the sense of realism is spoiled by the ugly environment detail, quite basic lighting, and a severe lack of environmental effects such as dust, heat haze etc...

Of course, everything looks much nicer than previous generations, but there's a long way to go towards proper realism that feels truly convincing. I also hope that racing game devs focus on lighting and environmental details and effects, rather than the car models. The disparity in quality between the impressive car models and the rest of the graphics really needs to be addressed.

[nonny]

It's pretty obvious though isn't it... The cars are the stars and it's easier to make them realistic. They sell the game, or at least the pursuit of car pron has less us here. It's why these games have photo mode or autovista.

Thankfully I think we're at a point where they look so good they make everything in the periphery look ugly. When in motion you don't notice but come to a stop and inspect you'll then see everything cut to make genres like this run so well at high frame rates.

Agree it's time there was investment in other areas now but it depends on the goals of the developer.

I think Forza Horizon is probably the best racing game of the current generation. It's not track bound and we've gone from it being limited in FH2 on 360 to now being wide open drive anywhere in FH3/4 and with weather and a 60fps mode. That game also handles great, plays great and has a tonne of potential.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Drive clubs environments were pretty nice. GT Sports are awful, they still use the same trees from the ps1 days I think.
I guess as a racing game developer your priority is going to be the cars, environments wizz by so they probably think your not looking too hard.

[Team Andromeda]

I’m not making sense? Everyone gets what I’m saying but you mate.

Death stranding does not look real. It looks a tiny tiny bit more real than last gen did. .

OK, Jim.

Death Stranding human models are frighteningly realistic and way way beyond anything that the consoles of last gen could handle and sometimes those mountains look so real, you might as well be on the hills of Wales or Scotland. Playing COD 2020 to the COD Call of Duty 4 and you see massive leaps with the characters looking far more realistic, same for Drakes 3 to Drakes 4 or RE 6 to 7.

Or are you actually a graphics engineer,

Or you?. Given even ILM couldn't make a virtual Peter Cushing look indistinguishable from a real human despite their floors of high-end computers (and was just one human). It's a little bit much to expect tiny console's to beat what is possible in real life or in film. Maybe in 20 years