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    Originally posted by dataDave View Post
    They could have perfected Halo Infinite for the standard Xbox One while offering performance and resolution upgrades for the OneX/SeriesX, until at least two years down the line before going fully-fledged next-gen..
    I said during E3 20018, that I would have rathered Halo launch Infinite on the One X as a big send-off and then 343 looks to make a super version for the Series X. Tbh I'm not at all worried with Halo Infinite. It looks good and the combat looks great and classic Halo (don't care what anyone says)

    I'm far more worried about Forza 8. Other than MS looking to keep stuff back, why was so little of the game showed? Turn 10 usually eat Polyphony digital for breakfast, when it comes to development and hitting the target date. I'm amazed so little was shown, given I was fully expecting it to be a nailed on a launch title

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      I'm craving a modern racer, and if GT7 beats Forza to launch. Well...

      I could play Forza on my existing PC, but I'd need a PS5 for GT7. Despite that what matters the most is my time commitment given to either game. I'm not wasting money, even Game Pass sub money, on a racer when I'm already time-invested in the competition.

      Yep, these releases are mega-important for Xbox/Game Pass. They can't be late. Gamers usually pick a side and then valiantly stick to it (FIFA or PES? COD or BF? DOTA2 or LoL? Destiny or Halo? SoR or Final Fight? Daytona or Ridge? etc.

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        Originally posted by dataDave View Post
        I'm craving a modern racer, and if GT7 beats Forza to launch.
        Well.... This is Polyphony Digital and we'll all know the game will be pushed back, it's been their trademark going all the way back to GT3.

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          Both will sell out simply due to them both shipping low numbers. I don't think they'll have the stock to keep up with demand and there's bound to be covid related shortages.

          As for Halo. Well it's a vehicle to sell across the entire ecosystem so I can see why they made it that way but it's obviously proving to be a massive undertaking.

          Given its a platform for several years they want it as a base on all devices now. Delivering that piece by piece would be harder and I think opting to stick to current gen is nice in hindsight but no-one can have predicted where we are now... Apart from Bill Gates of course.

          As for racers, I thought Forza 8 and GT both looked great. Way out from launch but both about where I would expect them to be. I'm much less interested in sim racers now though as Horizon has spoiled me.

          I would love to see Horizon as a series become more than what it is now. We of course have Dirt 5 and Project Cars in the mix these days as well...

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            Delaying Halo will be the right move because the game clearly has major critical issues with it and isn't anywhere near fit for release. If that wasn't the case then MS would have delayed it till early 2021 instead of the vague year wide figure that blatantly implies it can now go on next years Xmas lists. Likewise they could have simply released it as an Xbox One game and provided a Series X patch later - again, either the game is seriously troubled beyond visuals or people need to heavily reign in their expectations of 'next-gen patches'

            Really, the issue isn't Halo's (though clearly questions need asking about 343 and the project), Series X should never have been depending on it. Imagine Perfect Dark Zero had been delayed beyond the 360's launch, there'd have still been at least five other exclusives to fall back on. This applies equally to Sony as well given TLOU2 and GoT's releases are by the by, it's been years since Sony announced new major titles so they should have been ready for launch better than they are, they still have the edge of not facing such a high profile delay though.


            I feel it's one of a hundred daggers in Microsoft's plans for the next-gen. Here's how I see it:

            Microsoft are in direct competition with Sony. Personally I don't feel like there's any avoiding that reality. All the talk of not caring how people play their games, it's just about the eco-system of people playing their games and them making money via long term MTX etc is BS made up to appease higher bosses and share holders. Microsoft hasn't made a super powerful next-gen console because they're not in competition with Sony. They haven't pitched it steadfast to a November launch because they're not in competition with Sony. They haven't dilly dallied for nine strong months holding off announcing and RRP and specific date because they're not in competition with Sony. Everything they've done with the system is on the basis of one thing and it's Sony.

            Game Pass has shifted to around 25% of Xbox One's sold. As much as MS is trying to keep those systems in the eco-system that won't last forever so it's critical that those users go to Series S/X and not PS5 as if Microsoft saw their hardware sales drop by a third, a half or even as much as down to 15m like Nintendo saw last gen then those Game Pass subs are going to get slashed so again that competition with Sony is at the very heart of their plans.

            Backwards compatibility is another that gets mentioned, the truth though is that 99% or higher of gamers don't give a toss about it. The vast, vast majority of launch Series X sales will be to Xbox One owners. Being able to play four generations of games means nothing because they can play three of them right now and it now turns out there aren't really any games for the fourth generation coming out anymore for launch. This is true to Sony too and why I think they've always been more lax about it and why they wasted so many years not pushing PSNow, most consumers just don't care if the new system plays their old games because most of their old games are exactly that and they already have the system that runs them if they fancy a dabble.

            xCloud? It's the same thing. MS says they're in competition with Google, Amazon etc which is kind of true but not only have those rival attempts been disasters they've also failed to highlight that any demand even exists for the service. I could go quite deeply into what's wrong with xCloud from an Xbox perspective but I won't because ultimately it's a bullet point on the back of the box that most will never use like linking your Vita to your PS4 or... hell, I'll go there, VR support.

            So when MS says that they 'don't care how people play their games, it's just about the eco-system of people playing their games' they're screwing up. Making a console is hard and expensive, making a good one is even harder, launching one and succeeding is a huge effort and resource drain - what MS says it intends are the words of a third party publisher, not a console maker and what they intend to deflect unflattering comparisons to a rival that has been battering them for most of their run. They instead deflect consumer interest in their console because why should the buyer care if they pick one up if even MS apparently doesn't?

            It's genuinely frustrating because as I've said before - Sony badly needs Microsoft as a competitive rival. The golden era of the X360 and PS3 was a direct result of Microsoft drawing blood after the PS2's huge success and Sony needing to be humbled and claw back users. Microsoft is not going to sit back and shrug if Xbox erodes its market share and they won't tolerate losing money hand over fist for it either. The last thing we need is Sony feeling it's old arrogance can return because one thing I'm fairly certain of is that if MS needs to step out of hardware, no-one will step in their place. It's why I feel they should delay Series X, it's not ready and the window for it to have to run purely as a hardware option for XBO gamers till its software is ready is so big now that the window for bad PR and it's position as a 'losing' system could easily cement long before Halo arrives. We're going to hear a lot about Game Pass in the coming months because MS now depends on it so heavily for the small share of revenue it attracts out of the whole gaming sphere but it's absolutely not going to sell hardware and it's not going to carry Series X. MS really needs to show people that it's serious about tackling the system.

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              You say that but as an Xbox One X owner I can honestly say I'm playing as many backward compatible titles these days on that machine than I ever did owning 2-3 generations of consoles.

              I mean right now I'm playing Spec Ops The Line that I missed out on 360 and it plays amazing on the new machine. I've also been playing other 360 titles via xCloud local streaming... And I've played a tonne of Game Pass games over the last year.

              In short, all the things you point out as being parts of the ecosystem that people don't care about... Well I do, I'm using them and enjoying them and when added together they make up a greater case than individually.

              To me, this plus new games on a more powerful system makes for a compelling reason to upgrade. I think the issue here is convincing people who aren't already in that setup that there is value there. Of course with a lot of people being solely on PS4 it's that camp that is probably the hardest to sway to come back across the divide.

              That's why I say MS doesn't really care about the XSX sales. Ok they do care, and market share against Sony is something they're not going to ignore... But of they can persuade you to buy/try games on PC and stay with PS5 they would be fine with that. Or maybe you're not bothered about PC either but gaming on the go you see cloud gaming a plus and pick up game pass just for your phone/tablet and 5G (expensive right now but 2 years from now, viable?)


              If MS continues with the same console share or marginally better over the next few years they're making a huge difference. That isn't a losing system, that's just one specific market their ecosystem covers where the main competitor is difficult to topple.

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                That's what MS has to overcome next gen, for those like yourself who use Game Pass it's unquestionably great for individual gamers but it's not shifted XBO hardware or XSX hardware with both slow for the last two years and anything that stalls the increase in subscription numbers will also stall the services profitability and therefore how it develops moving forward. Even taking it on a Netflix model basis it means MS is sitting almost on the sidelines because attention is increasingly with their rival because they now also don't have the attention driving content inbound for either Series X, Game Pass or even Xbox One.

                If MS could sell tens of millions of subscriptions to PC owners then yeah, I could see that diverting focus off XBox but I honestly don't see how they'll do that. MS Store is not a popular option on PC and whilst Steam has shown MS's games have demand, people are paying for them rather than use Game Pass. Most of its games including indies come to PC before they do console to begin with, keys are super cheap and the cost conscious have an abundance of options rather than tie themselves to Game Pass's ecosystem especially when another already already dominates as the 'Sony' of PC gaming - Steam. It's the same with phones, time and time and time again console experience titles have failed because the demand for that experience doesn't exist, it's a different market and the practicalities get in the way. What MS is effectively doing is creating an eco-system of ways whereby you can play Halo Infinite etc but they're all low demand methods.

                I think they just see Game Pass as a saviour where it isn't one. It's a brilliant supplementary optional benefit of being an Xbox user, but won't remotely make up for their inability to get their house in order.

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                  I'm broadly with Neon here.

                  The problem for me with the idea that Xbox is now primarily a service business rather than a hardware business is that currently the services are sold primarily to people who have the hardware.

                  That could change - I'm sure MS would love that to change. But that's how things stand right now. And I think it's really important to Game Pass subscriber figures that lots of Series Xs are sold.

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                    Do people think Microsoft will bother to release this in Japan?

                    My local BIC Camera hasn't had Bone hardware for about a year, and stopped doing Bone games about three years ago.

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                      Yeah I would expect them to release worldwide Japan included, for what it's worth.

                      Hey I really appreciate the opinions in this one. Nothing like a good bit of healthy debate.

                      At the moment I'm weighing up getting a PS5 as well. I nearly grabbed a PS4 Pro last year but instead opted for the Switch as a 2nd machine. That leaves me in the position of wanting to play the exclusives I've missed on PS4 but where we're at now it makes sense to wait it out and look at the PS5 in 2021.

                      So I'm looking at PS5 not only for what is to come but specifically for backwards compatibility. I would wonder how many Microsoft can sway in the reverse scenario...? It's going to be interesting.

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                        Didn't really know where to post this but it's semi- relevant to MS pursuit to get xCloud on the app store.

                        Apple just took Fortnite off the store today and Epic have sued it for being a monopoly. **** has just got very interesting!

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                          That will be interesting to see play out, they're already on the EU's radar for their practices.

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                            Begun, the store wars have, hmm?

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                              Originally posted by nonny View Post
                              https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/2...unctive-relief

                              Didn't really know where to post this but it's semi- relevant to MS pursuit to get xCloud on the app store.

                              Apple just took Fortnite off the store today and Epic have sued it for being a monopoly. **** has just got very interesting!
                              Epic tried to bypass apple altogether by implementing their own payment system within the app. Na, your ok epic, you can shove that up your arse, if epic are allowed then the floodgates will be opened for every single dev to have a different payment system, requiring different log ins and sign ins for almost every app if they all did it.

                              Just f*****g NO.

                              From a legal perspective, i can see Epic loosing this and having to slink back on their bellys to the app store if they want to keep their shareholders happy and not loose all that ios cash.
                              Last edited by fishbowlhead; 14-08-2020, 05:34.

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                                Yeah, that didn't work for Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.

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