Retro Rumble: Round 14

[Leon Retro]

Re: Sonic, the original still remains my favourite. Perhaps it’s just the nostalgia associated with me getting it for Christmas

I have strong nostalgia for how special Sonic felt when I got a copy in the summer of '91. But it's not all about "nostalgia" because I've still loved playing it in the modern era. There are plenty of old school games that I once liked but now feel quite stale. Sonic 1, though, manages to stand the test of time as a really enjoyable game

but for me it’s the bits that many dislike, such as Marble Zone, that draw me back to the original. It’s not just speed, speed, speed, but also more traditional platforming levels that require precision jumps.

I can appreciate why some people might feel that the Marble Zone levels are out of place, but I've always liked them. It doesn't bother me that you get a change of pace in the second zone. Levels that don't follow the Green Hill Zone formula don't annoy me.

So as much as I get why some people feel Sonic games should be all about speed, I don't mind variety with how levels play/feel.

Like the Super Mario games, I also felt the feel, the inertia, momentum and the jump mechanics were almost perfect with the Sonic games, making them timeless classics that have never been bettered.

Yeah, the MD Sonic games are expertly crafted creations that will always stand up in all departments. They have a timeless quality. They're in the top tier of classic games that are still captivating experiences.

[samanosuke]

I have strong nostalgia for how special Sonic felt when I got a copy in the summer of '91. But it's not all about "nostalgia" because I've still loved playing it in the modern era. There are plenty of old school games that I once liked but now feel quite stale. Sonic 1, though, manages to stand the test of time as a really enjoyable game.

What I meant is perhaps the nostalgia of getting it that Christmas contributes towards me preferring it over the, arguably better, second and third games in the series. They all feel as fresh today as they did back then IMO.

[Leon Retro]

What I meant is perhaps the nostalgia of getting it that Christmas contributes towards me preferring it over the, arguably better, second and third games in the series. They all feel as fresh today as they did back then IMO.

Yeah, I knew you meant it's more than just nostalgia when it comes to liking Sonic, even if that emotion plays a part in preferring it over the sequels. I was just expressing how I feel the same.

The second game refined the formula really well, but I have a soft spot for the original. That's the Sonic game I've played the most over the years. It's definitely one of those special retro games that still feels fresh.



Anyway, the important iissue is: Which box art is best:?

[Team Andromeda]

I remember when Sega decided to pack Sonic in with the console -- sales went through the roof. It impressed everyone I showed it to upon release; they hadn't seen anything like it before. .

Sales were going through the roof before that. I remember stock of Pal carts was so low, SEGA Europe actually had to import and use USA carts with just a Pal case artwork (but the game cart still had the USA name Genesis logo on its artwork) in order to try and meet demand.

Makes me laugh too that many credit the lying tosser than is Tom Kalinske with selling SEGA 16 bit wonder when it was Sonic that made and sold the Mega Drive and unlike Tom and SEGA America. SEGA Europe and Nick Alexander had had double the hardware sales to that of the Snes and was the real market where SEGA totally outsold Nintendo.

[Leon Retro]

Sales were going through the roof before that. I remember stock of Pal carts was so low, SEGA Europe actually had to import and use USA carts with just a Pal case artwork

I didn't know that. It really highlights how popular the MD was.

Makes me laugh too that many credit the lying tosser than is Tom Kalinske with selling SEGA 16 bit wonder

At least Sonic likes him.

when it was Sonic that made and sold the Mega Drive and unlike Tom and SEGA America. SEGA Europe and Nick Alexander had had double the hardware sales to that of the Snes and was the real market where SEGA totally outsold Nintendo.

I remember the Mega Drive being popular in 1989 -- with a healthy import market. Away from America and its focus on EA sports games that were hugely popular, the MD attracted a lot of attention in the early days because it had some top quality titles that impressed gamers.

Sonic then became the Super Mario Bros. for the Mega Drive, in the way it was a 'killer app' that everyone wanted to play. It always felt like the MD was way more popular than the SNES in the UK. I guess that was partly down to the Master System being a big thing, so the Sega name was trusted.

[samanosuke]

Yeah, I’ve never bought into the idea that the SNES overtook it in sales. Looks more to be the case in the USA and perhaps even in Europe, but anecdotally I had way more friends at school with MDs than SNESes.

[Leon Retro]

Yeah, I’ve never bought into the idea that the SNES overtook it in sales..

I looked at various sales figures for both machines in the UK -- and it looks like the MD either sold way more than the SNES, or it simply sold a reasonable amount more.

The fact that the UK Mega Drive launched in late '89 and the SNES in early '92, gave Sega's machine an important head start. Also, Sonic(Sega's killer app)was released in '91, and that also really helped to sell the Mega Drive. Sega then bundling the game with the machine was a masterstroke.

If only Nintendo could have launched the SNES worldwide for Xmas 1990, it would have certainly helped. I guess lots of people opted for a Mega Drive instead of waiting ages for Nintendo's wonder machine. However much the SNES looked enticing in magazines, the Mega Drive was available, popular, and had a very attractive games library.

Anyway, when I look back on the 16-bit days in the UK, it was obvious that the MD was more popular. It seemed like a majority of people had a Mega Drive, whereas it was more unusual to meet someone who owned a SNES. Of course, the SNES eventually became pretty successful in the UK, but I felt the Mega Drive had more prominence in all areas of UK gaming culture.

[Hirst]

The narrative on the Internet is dominated by Americans, so we tend to hear everything from their perspective - which is that Nintendo dominated the 8 and 16 bit console markets, apart from that brief period the MD did better. The worldwide picture is a lot more different - Sega dominated the market in Europe and Brazil, but also had a decent presence in Korea and Taiwan. They also were more prominent in developing markets (where Nintendo often had none outside of unofficial Chinese Famicom clones with 100-in-1 carts).

Personally I'm sick of hearing it from the American side, Nintendo was pretty much a cult over there with people obsessing over Nintendo Power and those daft championships. The Sega side was equally naff, Blast Processing and all that. And it ignores the way it was in Japan, where Nintendo was the big seller but the PC Engine also did well.

Speaking personally, I knew a few people with the SNES (especially once it had been out a few years) but at best it was 1 to 3 who I knew with an MD. And the NES felt like an obscurity - I only ever knew a single kid with one! The Master System destroyed it.

[JazzFunk]

Outta that lot, I only wanna pick two...Contra and Yoshi's Island. To me, they're proper bad boy games. No messin'.

To form a triumvirate, I'm gonna kinda reluctantly add Sonic purely because it's STILL one of the most perfect-looking videogames ever made...I've just always thought the gameplay was a bit simple and iffy at high speeds.

Stunt Race FX, you say?

*SNORTS WITH DERISION*

Never been able to take that one seriously. I had VR on MD. That was PROPER 16-bit home console polygonal racing!!!

I mean, didn't the cars on SFX have cartoon eyes texture-mapped over their headlights?

Yes. Yes, I think they did.

*CLEARS THROAT, GOBS MUCUS-BALL ONTO FLOOR, EXITS DRAMATICALLY*

[Leon Retro]

The narrative on the Internet is dominated by Americans, so we tend to hear everything from their perspective - which is that Nintendo dominated the 8 and 16 bit console markets, apart from that brief period the MD did better. The worldwide picture is a lot more different

Yeah, the UK(and European) gaming scene was very different to America's.

While 8-bit computers like the ZX Spectrum, C64 and Amstrad created a gaming boom in the UK throughout the 80s, America had a gaming crash after people got bored of the Atari 2600. And computers like the Apple II and IBM PC were a big thing, but very unusual in UK homes. The Atari ST and Commodore Amiga then found huge success in the UK, but didn't take off in America, where expensive PCs were hugely popular.

The NES then became a big thing in America from 1985 onwards, but didn't repeat the same sort of success in the UK. Sega's Master System was the 'must-have' 8-bit console in the UK, but it flopped badly in America. The Master System would be a popular low cost console in the UK into the '90s -- with Sega even producing an even cheaper MK2 revision.

While the NES was booming in America during 1989, UK gamers were excited about the Sega's Mega Drive, with a healthy import scene to make things even more lively. The Sega name was highly respected after the success of the Master System, so the Mega Drive became an instant hit.

The Americans only had to wait until summer '91 for the SNES, but UK gamers had to wait until April '92. By that time... the Sega had a foothold with the Mega Drive and must-have games such as Sonic the Hedgehog.

The SNES would eventually sell pretty well in the UK, but the Mega Drive was the most popular 16-bit console in the.

[Leon Retro]

To form a triumvirate, I'm gonna kinda reluctantly add Sonic purely because it's STILL one of the most perfect-looking videogames ever made..

Yeah, the visuals are still beautiful. I also think the music is brilliant.

Stunt Race FX, you say?

*SNORTS WITH DERISION*

Never been able to take that one seriously. I had VR on MD. That was PROPER 16-bit home console polygonal racing!!!

I mean, didn't the cars on SFX have cartoon eyes texture-mapped over their headlights?

Imagine a version that looked this good. But you'd still have the 'cars with eyes'.

Nintendo really need to make a modern version that does the concept justice. Lots of people like the funny design.

Virtua Racing on the MD was such an impressive port.

[JazzFunk]

^I reckon Stunt Race FX *might* have been a cool, fun little 3D racer...

...if it hadn't have run around 4fps on the PAL SNES.


4fps. With cartoon eyes on the cars.

[JazzFunk]

There's a reason that game wasn't included on the SNES Mini and that's cos it's **** and always has been!!!!!!!!!!!

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah, I’ve never bought into the idea that the SNES overtook it in sales. Looks more to be the case in the USA and perhaps even in Europe, but anecdotally I had way more friends at school with MDs than SNESes.

It never did in the USA. In Europe, SEGA were way ahead of Nintendo for sales with the UK Mega Drive user base double that of the SNES. But SEGA Europe or Nick Alexander never get any credit for it.

I'll give Tom and SEGA America a lot of credit for handling the Mega-CD better than Sega Japan Or Europe mind

[Leon Retro]

...if it hadn't have run around 4fps on the PAL SNES.

There's a reason that game wasn't included on the SNES Mini and that's cos it's **** and always has been!!!!!!!!!!!

A friend of mine imported a copy from Japan and the NTSC frame rate was also terrible. I couldn't believe Nintendo would release a racer that ran so poorly after the excellent F-Zero & SMK.
I bet Nintendo considered putting it on the Mini -- but then realised how clunky it is.

I'll give Tom and SEGA America a lot of credit for handling the Mega-CD better than Sega Japan Or Europe mind

Ahhh.. the memories of Kriss Kross and Marky Mark.