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America & World IV: Trump's Taxing Day

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    That's it. The inconsistency in what they care about shows there is more (or maybe less) there than actually caring about life.

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      Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post
      I could understand a pro-life stance if all Texans thought all life was sacred, but their love of guns says otherwise.

      With 135 school shootings so far this year in Texas, 2nd highest after California's 164, it feels like they'll do whatever they can to protect the rights of an unborn baby, but as soon as it's out, it had better learn to shoot as soon as possible.
      If they aren’t born in the first place they can’t grow up to be shot by a gun, bad for business.

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        Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
        That's it. The inconsistency in what they care about shows there is more (or maybe less) there than actually caring about life.
        It's also that abortion seems to trump (pun intendended) all other issues.

        There was an art protest in Washington DC with a pair of shoes for every single teenager that had been shot and killed that year (hint: a lot), but the majority of the comments were "What about baby boots for every baby needlessly killed by abortion?!".

        Absolutely no attempt to address the issue being raised about gun control, just constant whataboutery to say that pro-choice is worse than literally shooting a child.

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          It's just the aged old stance of control, control over women and their bodies. That this was coming was inevitable, like so many things in the US like the recent Afghan debacle etc America is still at the mercy of the fallout of Trump's era and how the Democrats remain so weak willed to effect change. This is the proof they need that standing on the sidelines and moaning about the Supreme Court's corruption when you hold the seats of power is a disgrace and much of the judgment on Biden and the administration will come down on how quickly they strike this decision down. They've shown themselves to be incompetent at dealing with foreign matters and they can't survive if the prove the same at domestic too. If they let this stand it will mean more dark developments will continue to run and Trump's era will continue even without him.

          As far as the dev's go, there will be those working at Tripwire who get caught up in the negative effects of the contract cancellations but it's equally Shipwright's place to manage its own company image which is reflected in the company it keeps. If Tripwire shows little regard for the effects those views (that no-one asked for or needs) on its own staff or those it works with in posting it then it can't expect them to be considerate in return.

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            Originally posted by briareos_kerensky View Post
            terminating a business relation that affects a lot of individuals with different ideas because someone doesn't share your opinion is wrong...

            ...but shaming people out of business due to their beliefs...
            I don't agree with you. People can do/not do business with whomever they choose. And they're not "shaming someone out of business"; they're just saying that their beliefs are incompatible.

            To put it another way, the CEO of that company didn't need to come forward and take a stance on a political issue which is wholly outside of his role (putting aside if media can ever be "apolitical" here; point is that his company isn't directly involved in women's health issues). By taking that stance, he put his beliefs in that issue before his business, and in turn, before the welfare of his staff (as he must have known people might not want to support him once he made that public).

            Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
            That's it. The inconsistency in what they care about shows there is more (or maybe less) there than actually caring about life.
            George Carlin once said something along the lines of that too much of America is anti-abortion because they want more babies that can be future dead soldiers. Every joke has a grain of truth I guess.

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              Originally posted by Asura View Post
              I don't agree with you. People can do/not do business with whomever they choose. And they're not "shaming someone out of business"; they're just saying that their beliefs are incompatible.
              If that would stop at the relationship between Tripwire and Shipwright, it'll be fine. But once Gibson expressed support for "the wrong opnion", it'll snowball outside that business relation and suddenly Gibson will find himself in a media frenzy about his opinion, and if Tripwire doesn't say something along the lines of "his opinion, not ours, we don't want to anger the social media gods", everyone in Tripwire will suffer.
              Twitter, social media, and nowadays a lot of gaming websites seem to server as resonation chambers for the most disruptive voices, and unfortunately a lot of business are way too eager to appease one or other side of the issue.

              What I fear, in a broader sense, is that people will have a permanent stigma attached to them if their opinion doesn't coincide with what most people think is right at the moment.

              (I don't particularly like talking about these things because I'm not particularly good at expressing my view on the matter and the language does pose an extra barrier to that.)

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                The main issue is that Gibson is the figurehead of that company, what he says reflects on that business in the same way that if Bill Gates tweeted that he supported animal cruelty it would be picked up quickly as a stance that reflects both on him and Microsoft even though the company itself never put out a statement of that nature. He's simply not thought enough about the ramifications of him wading in to territory that will provoke a strong reaction.

                My own stance is that whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion it doesn't mean that opinion reflects moral right or fact and some issues transcend the consideration of opinion (ironic I know given that in itself is an opinion). This is one of them for me, to ban abortion is an affront to people's human rights over an issue that here prioritises the potential for a life over an existing one (and that's before the mountain of other concerns that mount up on the issue quickly). There's certainly a debate about the issue to be had but 6 weeks is a disgusting line to draw and it's done so with purposeful bad intent, it's a rule that will destroy more lives than it pretends to save. But with this I can process it in my mind that Gibson is speaking for himself rather than Tripwire as a whole but that kind of highlights the issue he's created, I now already associate his company with that issue and him and I have to consciously dislink the two. For other companies that don't align with his now publicised position their loyality is to their own employees (assuming they don't agree with him I guess).

                In short, he should just keep it to himself because his tweet never stood to add anything positive to the issue, and now it's simply made things worse for others.

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                  [MENTION=7539]briareos_kerensky[/MENTION] I understand that and, to some extent, I even agree with it. We have a current tendency to judge people for their worst moments rather than their best or even their normal. This doesn’t feel healthy. That said, there are a couple of other things here. One is a company thing - I feel for too long companies have provided an excuse for some terrible things (I’m just doing my job, and so on). Realising and accepting that, actually, there are real people behind companies and real people on the other end of their actions seems to be a good thing, in my view. The other thing is related and also about consequences but is more about the individuals themselves - if you are vocal about your views to the point of publishing them on social media for the world to see and those views have consequences for others (such as restricting their reproductive rights), one should expect that the publishing of those views could also have consequences. If the consequence is that you lose business, then so be it.

                  I totally agree that it can be taken too far (and often is, as some love to jump on things) but I think the consequences are to be expected. If I put myself in a position of running a company doing business with that person (and I have actually been in a somewhat similar situation before), I couldn’t in all good conscience continue to do business with someone who has taken that position publicly because I would be seen to support that by default and it would put everyone who works with me in a very awkward and uncomfortable situation.

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                    in a society where your cat treats are supporting LGBTQ causes* you have to look at things from a commercial perspective, being on the wrong side of an issue is commercial suicide, Anti Woman's rights is a massive topic in video games at the moment so you can understand why a company would want to distance themselves from a very controversial statement.

                    Blizzard and Riots ongoing legal troubles with sexual discrimination and harassment has made this a very current and difficult topic. it has real world implications too, outside of the bad press and lawsuits the company's stocks can become volatile and take downward trends massively affecting their bottom line pissing off shareholders and starting a sell off further pushing share prices down.


                    *Mars Petcare is rolling out a temporary pack design for its Dreamies cat treats range to support the LGBT Foundation, as part of its commitment to the LGBT+ community and their mental health.

                    Mars Petcare is rolling out a temporary pack design for its Dreamies cat treats range to support the LGBT Foundation, as part of its commitment to the
                    Last edited by Lebowski; 06-09-2021, 16:32.

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                      This is the thing, right?

                      Companies, products, even celebrities, bands and singers... A big part of what makes them work is "the story", or the human interest which they cultivate. This is the same reason why, for example, the winner of an X-Factor-like gameshow isn't just the best singer in isolation; they big up how that person works as a checkout chick, looks after their sick mother, has struggled to get into music school but can't beat the system...

                      That's all fine, that's just branding. It's part of taking a product, or a service, or a company, and putting a human face on it to make it seem like more than it is. This is exactly the same as how many successful YouTubers and streamers exploit parasocial relationships; they give an impression of being their viewer's friend, as opposed to just an entertainer.

                      But at the same time, this is the why people get so worked up about when companies (or people who run those companies) take a problematic stance on social issues.

                      Companies don't have to be personable. IBM isn't really personable. British Aerospace aren't very personable. Microsoft, Sony, Tesco - these companies aren't personable. They have a personality but that's a different thing.

                      But small entertainment companies often are (of which videogames are an example), because they're represented by creative individuals. Leveraging this allows them to get through to their audience and seem "genuine". Additionally, those individuals will proudly list "I work for Namco Bandai" in their Twitter bio because it lends credence to what they have to say.

                      Those companies could not do this, and those individuals could keep their employer/position to themselves. But they know that fewer people would buy their products or listen to what they have to say. Making that declaration is often a conscious decision.

                      This is why people get miffed if they come out with commentary that they disagree with; why they take it so seriously. It's because that person has enjoyed the benefits that those things gave them; they can't then cry foul just because they have to accept the consequences of that action - if they've made an attempt to seem personable, like their audience's "friend", then they have to accept they'll get backlash if they say something that pisses their audience off.

                      Only thing I'll add here is that this doesn't defend the ****ty, unacceptable practice of sending people death threats over trivial things, like disliking an actor in Star Wars.
                      Last edited by Asura; 06-09-2021, 15:35.

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                        If he had performed a 30 second cost benefit analysis in his head, he should have had sufficient evidence that that it would be a stupid thing to tweet.

                        He's entitled to his opinion, abhorrent as it may be to me personally. But considering the decision had already been approved by the Supreme Court, his tweet of support for it was hardly materially useful to the cause. Where it has had an impact is on is his own business, which his employees depend on for their livelihoods. And the impact has been significant.

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                          **** this guy. I feel bad for any employees that have different options to him, but **** him. I don't believe people should have the right to express bull**** opinions like this.
                          50% of the Texas population just got **** on from a great height and anyone that backs this this a piece of **** and deserves anything coming to them.

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                            I was thinking of playing Man Eater on Games Pass, but not now.

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                              Texas: Because yes, we really are THIS stupid.

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