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    I think whether it's cool or not depends on how much faith you have in the justice system. Not trying to be a dick but when we have people like Priti Patel running the show and trying to build sea walls to keep out child migrants, the idea that everyone's iPhone photos can be mined for thoughtcrime is more frightening than reassuring.

    I know it's just the paedos for now. They always start with the paedos with this type of thing. Because everyone hates them and no one can be seen to even inadvertently defend them. But I bet it doesn't stop there.

    Comment


      It is CCTV through the backdoor for sure. I need to look into it more as I wasnt aware it was a thing until this thread!

      Comment


        Oh it’s definitely not going to stop there. Give it just a few years and it will be any crime whatsoever being scanned for.

        Comment


          Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
          Oh it’s definitely not going to stop there. Give it just a few years and it will be any crime whatsoever being scanned for.
          Playing Devils advocate here but would it be so bad if the following happened:

          So we have your Geo location showing you entered this property's shed at 4am on Saturday the 10/08/21 and also the pictures and listing of the bikes you tried to sell on Facebook marketplace straight to jail do not pass go.

          or

          your phone is showing that you where racing another car at 120 mps on the M62 at 2AM on the 11/08/21 if you could turn your license in at your local police station we will also be happy to settle your speeding fines for you.

          It's a bit 1984 but we seem to be lacking police to tackle the basics so why not give the police a foot up and use technology against those breaking the law, i suppose the real problem with this sort of system is for it to work you have to invade everyone's privacy to shut down the criminals, plus you have to trust your police and not be living in an authoritarian regime.

          Comment


            Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding around the Apple checking for iffy images story. They aren’t scanning images on your phone but are checking images sent to the iCloud servers. It’s a system for checking against a known database of images but it compares so called fingerprints rather than the whole image so it can detect altered versions of known images. And there is human verification of flagged accounts before reporting too. The Messages app feature is for parents to enable for the children under 12 on a family account. An adult can still freely send images using iMessage/SMS as before. Apple’s take on this sounds quite reasonable from a users privacy perspective.
            It’s good to see things like this in place. A friend used to work in a PC repair shop and had to report a surprising number of people to the police who had indecent images on their computers. Facebook and Google also report millions of such images being found to authorities every year too. If you’re uploading iffy stuff to someone else’s servers they’re quite right to check for such things and report it.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
              Playing Devils advocate here but would it be so bad if the following happened:

              So we have your Geo location showing you entered this property's shed at 4am on Saturday the 10/08/21 and also the pictures and listing of the bikes you tried to sell on Facebook marketplace straight to jail do not pass go.

              or

              your phone is showing that you where racing another car at 120 mps on the M62 at 2AM on the 11/08/21 if you could turn your license in at your local police station we will also be happy to settle your speeding fines for you.

              It's a bit 1984 but we seem to be lacking police to tackle the basics so why not give the police a foot up and use technology against those breaking the law, i suppose the real problem with this sort of system is for it to work you have to invade everyone's privacy to shut down the criminals, plus you have to trust your police and not be living in an authoritarian regime.
              A "bit" 1984? You're advocating a big data solution to solve crime, where you're potentially being reviewed/ranked all the time even if you've done nothing wrong. It's like China's "social ranking" policy and it's horrific.

              I'm okay with people getting away with some petty crimes if it means we don't live in a police state.

              The problem, also, is that this will overreach.

              I've mentioned this example here before, but again... Over the last 10 years I've been to London a bunch of times, and, weirdly, I've ran into some of the anticapitalist/anarchist protests. I was there for something totally different each time, but walked past, got the bus through, etc., areas where those protests were going on. I was doubtless in a lot of photographs on CCTV and on people's phones, and using facial recognition and my own phone data, you could correlate that it was weird I was there when these were going on, multiple times. But it was a complete coincidence (or, maybe, those people just tend to pick the same weekend every year, and MCM Comicon is the same weekend, or something).

              Without a big data solution, this is just a weird coincidence. But with a big data solution, I might get to immigration in the US on a future holiday and just be refused entry to the country, because I've been flagged as suspiscious. The guard at the gate who runs me through the computer doesn't know why "computer says no", just that it does.

              Also, as said above, you're making the mistake of conflating "obeying the law" with being "morally right". This is an extreme example, but in fascist dictatorships, those people who shop in their neighbours to the police for being "undesirables" are obeying the law. Hell, in a "big data" state, they would be prosecuted for not telling the police about their neighbours.

              You have no idea when/how this will happen, but it certainly can. As said above, they would always start this process to "catch murderers" etc., like a type of person no-one can really defend, but just watch as it becomes "catch benefit cheats" (rich tax-dodgers are fine, they donate to the Tory party), and so on.

              Comment


                If im blind drunk and in a random house asleep on their coffee table then thats my business, not big data’s 😁
                Last edited by fishbowlhead; 10-08-2021, 11:49.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Asura View Post
                  A "bit" 1984? You're advocating a big data solution to solve crime, where you're potentially being reviewed/ranked all the time even if you've done nothing wrong. It's like China's "social ranking" policy and it's horrific.

                  I'm okay with people getting away with some petty crimes if it means we don't live in a police state.

                  The problem, also, is that this will overreach.

                  I've mentioned this example here before, but again... Over the last 10 years I've been to London a bunch of times, and, weirdly, I've ran into some of the anticapitalist/anarchist protests. I was there for something totally different each time, but walked past, got the bus through, etc., areas where those protests were going on. I was doubtless in a lot of photographs on CCTV and on people's phones, and using facial recognition and my own phone data, you could correlate that it was weird I was there when these were going on, multiple times. But it was a complete coincidence (or, maybe, those people just tend to pick the same weekend every year, and MCM Comicon is the same weekend, or something).

                  Without a big data solution, this is just a weird coincidence. But with a big data solution, I might get to immigration in the US on a future holiday and just be refused entry to the country, because I've been flagged as suspiscious. The guard at the gate who runs me through the computer doesn't know why "computer says no", just that it does.

                  Also, as said above, you're making the mistake of conflating "obeying the law" with being "morally right". This is an extreme example, but in fascist dictatorships, those people who shop in their neighbours to the police for being "undesirables" are obeying the law. Hell, in a "big data" state, they would be prosecuted for not telling the police about their neighbours.

                  You have no idea when/how this will happen, but it certainly can. As said above, they would always start this process to "catch murderers" etc., like a type of person no-one can really defend, but just watch as it becomes "catch benefit cheats" (rich tax-dodgers are fine, they donate to the Tory party), and so on.
                  On a serious note for once, if anyone wants to experience what big data is like to live with, you only have to open up a business account on Amazon and try dealing with a problem with the dreaded “seller support”.

                  Example, a competitor has reported one of your listings for some sort of violation or put a negative review against it.

                  You: one of my competitors has made a complaint against my listing by posting a fake review with false information, heres all the proof of the issue along with their name that matches their business account and the order along with addresses that match them in the same town.

                  Seller support: thanks for bringing this to our attention, your listing has been closed and deleted, chat ended.

                  You: sat there with your mouth open.



                  Thats what life will be like with literally everything going forward with big data and bots involved.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
                    Playing Devils advocate here but would it be so bad if the following happened:

                    So we have your Geo location showing you entered this property's shed at 4am on Saturday the 10/08/21 and also the pictures and listing of the bikes you tried to sell on Facebook marketplace straight to jail do not pass go.

                    or

                    your phone is showing that you where racing another car at 120 mps on the M62 at 2AM on the 11/08/21 if you could turn your license in at your local police station we will also be happy to settle your speeding fines for you.

                    It's a bit 1984 but we seem to be lacking police to tackle the basics so why not give the police a foot up and use technology against those breaking the law, i suppose the real problem with this sort of system is for it to work you have to invade everyone's privacy to shut down the criminals, plus you have to trust your police and not be living in an authoritarian regime.
                    Yes! It would be!

                    Comment


                      Our police forces are full of corruption, so leaving them in charge of a great big database of tracking info is about the worst idea ever. I'm sure it would lead to more arrests, but many of these would be enemies they've "fitted up" or just some poor chump who is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Doing a bank job? Don't worry - I've paid off the coppers to fit up someone else using their phone data. Not to mention all the tracking data they'd sell to journalists, or all the inside jobs they could pull by knowing who isn't in their house. And this is assuming the rest of the data is right in the first place - like they did when all those Postmasters got wrongfully convicted due to errors in the accounting software.

                      Personally I'd say the easiest way of reducing crime is to give people better education and opportunities so they don't feel like the only way forward is a life of crime. Unfortunately this would mean that we wouldn't have an underclass to look down on and treat like scum, so I can't see this government going for it.

                      Comment


                        Thing is, the rich and educated commit crimes same as the poor and uneducated do; they're just different sorts of crimes so that's no solution at all.

                        At work we're currently discussing how explainable AI has to be. So far the consensus is it has to be completely explainable except in some trivial cases e.g. suggesting music you might like.
                        Last edited by Brad; 10-08-2021, 14:25.

                        Comment


                          Well indeed - and what's the incentive for anyone not to do crime if people up at the top are doing fine by it?

                          Comment


                            All posts have been duly noted and your rankings have been updated. Unfortunately due to the lowness of your new ranking your Amazon® Power, Water and Consumables have been rescinded, this will not be reinstated until you complete a 6 week re-education course.

                            Could Brad, Asura, Wakka, and Hirst please report to your nearest re-education center for mandatory behavioral readjustment.

                            Yours sincerely

                            The Amazon® Ministry for protection of United kingdom.
                            Last edited by Lebowski; 10-08-2021, 13:55.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
                              All posts have been duly noted and your rankings have been updated. Unfortunately due to the lowness of your new ranking your Amazon® Power, Water and Consumables have been rescinded, this will not be reinstated until you complete a 6 week re-education course.

                              Could Brad, Asura, Wakka, and Hirst please report to your nearest re-education center for mandatory behavioral readjustment.

                              Yours sincerely

                              The Amazon® Ministry for protection of United kingdom.

                              Comment


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