United Kingdom VII: Taking Pride in Your Success

[Hirst]

I suspect they're voting Conservative because Labour barely exists any more.

Out of curiosity, what's the turnout been for these elections?

[Asura]

And it looks like Laurence Fox got more votes than Binface. Fan-****ing-tastic.

[prinnysquad]

Labour has done well in Wales and in the Mayoral elections. Burnham’s vote shot up. The best of Labour’s political talent seem to be increasingly inhabiting these roles.

Sobering to read/hear that one moron voted Tory in Hartlepool because they had brought 9 foodbanks to the area, whereas Labour hadn’t brought any. Then there’s the other moron on Look North who said he was voting Tory because Labour had ruined everything, and hadn’t built a new hospital. That’ll be the hospital closed under Tory rule 9 years ago, by the party who have ruled for 29 of the last 42 years. The level of ignorant stupidity is astonishing. I don’t know where the failures lie. The press for failing to connect the dots, or being on the payroll of donors? Or Labour for not spelling out the logical dislocation of these cretinous statements? Or the Tories for somehow pulling the incredible slight of hand that all the screw ups they’ve made over the last 11 years aren’t their fault?

[Dogg Thang]

I suspect they're voting Conservative because Labour barely exists any more.

Voting is an active choice. This would only be true if people were forced to vote and there were literally only Tory candidates. They’re voting Tory because they want to. And as we always say, that doesn’t mean those people are the worst of all things Tory but it does mean they are kind of okay with everything they do and everything they are.

Edit: this is related to a thing that again very much struck me with the US political space but, with the current gen of Tories, it’s very relevant to the UK too. Those who appeal to people with little or no standards are in a much stronger position. Appeal to the selfish, appeal to the ignorant, appeal to the beaten, the nihilists, the racists, the xenophobes, the misogynists and more (the list is huge) and you have a massive advantage because it’s really hard to let those people down. They don’t expect better of people. They don’t believe in better. You can be the worst person and it doesn’t surprise them or bother them.

But if you appeal to those who actually believe in better, those actively looking to improve things, people with standards, with expectations, that is a far harder path because you can easily let those people down. And sowing the smallest narratives that candidates may not actually be as good a person as they make out can be enough to ruin them. This is a side that will eat their own because they have standards. They expect better.

But only one of these sides actually serves the interests of people and the planet.

[Brad]

Two more Green seats in Gloucestershire :-) 1 tory seat lost.

[MartyG]

I do believe the electoral system is well and truly rotten though, we desperately need a system that allows a representation of a wider range of view points.

We had a referendum on that, over 70% said no we don't want to change it.

Referendums are stupid.

[Brad]

They didn’t say we don’t want to change it. They said we don’t want to change it to any of the ****e systems you’ve suggested.

[MartyG]

The system was far better than FPTP and how the outcome of that was taken is that the public didn't want to change it at all.

Changing it to AV would have been a stepping stone on electorial reform on the way to PR - we will now be stuck with FPTP because of the outcome of that referendum. No government really wants to change a system that gets them elected, PR will reduce the number of seats both Labour and the Tories get, with the huge vote against reform, it allows both of them to say look, the people don't want to change it.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I don't think everyone who votes for the Conservatives are evil, but I think it's a bit like nervously laughing along with the school bully while he throws somebody else's bag on the canteen roof. I think people vote for them to keep things broadly as they are because the situation suits them.

If you're doing alright under the Conservatives, what do you care that they're closing down a bunch of stuff you don't need to use? Yeah they're going to close down the local library, but they're not going to start meddling with your buy-to-let portfolio and start requiring you spend some extra money to bring it up to code. The public transport situation is a nightmare, but they aren't going to start making you pay your workers a wage they can live on. They're openly corrupt and give deals to their mates, but maybe one day you can be one of those mates.

They aren't the party of hope for a better tomorrow, they're the party of people who either like the system they've got or are so worn down by cynicism that they feel this is the best system they're ever going to get. It's the 21st century and we can engineer vaccines to save millions of lives. At the same time, human lives are worth so little that it's cheaper to have a bunch of men wash your car than a fairly simple robot. If you reckon after 11 years of managed decline they're suddenly going to turn on their heels and make society great, I wouldn't hold your breath.

I think you have absolutely nailed it. People vote to keep things the same. 'I'm OK, **** anyone else' mentality.

[Brad]

The system was far better than FPTP and how the outcome of that was taken is that the public didn't want to change it at all.

Changing it to AV would have been a stepping stone on electorial reform on the way to PR - we will now be stuck with FPTP because of the outcome of that referendum. No government really wants to change a system that gets them elected, PR will reduce the number of seats both Labour and the Tories get, with the huge vote against reform, it allows both of them to say look, the people don't want to change it.

It was barely any better and as far as I could tell in almost all cases would produce the exact same result as the existing system. If it was far better then they did a really bad job of explaining it. What we wanted was proportional representation and that should have been offered.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/09/government-to-change-english-voting-system-after-labour-mayoral-victories

Unhappy with their performance in the Mayoral voting the Tories now plan to change future Mayor votes to FPTP

[QualityChimp]

I wanted to weep seeing so many Conservative votes.

It feels like they'll get even more brazen, now they know what they can get away with.

The next campaign will just be Johnson sat atop a corpse, lighting a cigar from a tenner he stole from the corpse's wallet with the tag "Don't worry, it's not your tenner. Vote Conservative."

[Cassius_Smoke]

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others

[Golgo]

At least the Conservative have been kept firmly as the opposition in Wales, and rendered a complete irrelevance in Scotland. It was drearily predictable to see Johnson all of a sudden making with the friendlies with the regions over the weekend, but especially gratifying to see Sturgeon immediately tell him to go feck.

[QualityChimp]

At least the Conservative have been kept firmly as the opposition in Wales, and rendered a complete irrelevance in Scotland. It was drearily predictable to see Johnson all of a sudden making with the friendlies with the regions over the weekend, but especially gratifying to see Sturgeon immediately tell him to go feck.

Andrew Neil has written in the Daily Mail an article on Sturgeon being like Arthur Daley with her tactics.

The facts that, (1.) Andrew Neil wrote in (2.) The Daily Mail, means she must be doing something right...