Do you vote with your wallet? On what? And Why?

[Protocol Penguin]

Rarely do I do this. I didn't buy The Crew or The Crew 2 because they're always online, and while I think that future is inevitable, I don't want it so the less those games sell, the better.

Just about everything I buy comes from Amazon. Their customer service and convenience are second to none. I'd only ever vote with my wallet if there was an equally good and convenient alternative service / product.

I’m still annoyed at Amazon for removing the physical copy of Nintendo Land from my pre-ordered Wii U Premium bundle. (Yes, they took out the boxed disc that Nintendo packaged with the system. They fobbed you off with a download code if you complained enough.) So I avoid them too.

[cutmymilk]

A lot of amazon talk here. The truth is that many retailers were around decades before amazon. They give crappy customer service and along came amazon to show how it is done. It has only been a short amount of time and they have embarassed most of established retailers.

[Asura]

A lot of amazon talk here. The truth is that many retailers were around decades before amazon. They give crappy customer service and along came amazon to show how it is done. It has only been a short amount of time and they have embarassed most of established retailers.

Not sure how much their tax avoidance pays into that, though. It's like how Play.com destroyed HMV; it was partially because HMV's online efforts were crap (their CEOs at the time thought the internet was for nerds and no-one would want to buy music online) but we all know it's really because they were established in Jersey and paid less tax.

[Cassius_Smoke]

It's the wealth of products Amazon has that can't be beaten. One click purchase and next day delivery. How can anyone compete with it. I'd love to not use them and find other sites, but the convenience and ease just makes it so hard. Its not even like they are more expensive.

[cutmymilk]

The tax avoidance issue is a law issue really. Amazon dont make profit. They invest everything back into the company and make a loss every year. There is nothing stopping every company doing the same.

Of course that means paying senior staff a hefty wage but it also does an awful lot for the IT industry, automation, AI. They are the leaders of this field because of this investment.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep. It true. But it is that way because for years they were able to operate at a huge loss, throwing money at it, they pay their workers terribly and make sure their conditions don’t improve and they don’t pay taxes and many, many other things that we probably wouldn’t approve of. So yes, ‘how can anyone compete with it?’ is exactly the right question because they can’t and it’s for terrible reasons.

[cutmymilk]

I've always found those reports to be hearsay. Yes, the job used to involve a lot of walking (I believe the shelves wheel themselves to the packer these days ) and you have designated break times. The targets are not going to be easy to achieve. I believe there are a lot of warehouse jobs like that though.

I have limited expericence in similar work. I only worked in a car part factory for 3 months and the conditions were similar, minus the walking. Even Tesco nightshift had managers looming over everyone to make sure their shelf stocking was up to speed and staff were on target to finish.

Most of your clothes were made in Asian sweatshops in way worse working conditions and definitely for a lot less pay.

https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/8/21/20826405/amazons-profits-revenue-free-cash-flow-explained-charts

This is a good explanation of how amazon work. I just find it hard to knock, knowing the full story of how Bezos built the company. It is astounding and, ridiculously, it could still be classed as "up and coming."

Hand on heart, would you buy a £200 coffee machine from Currys or Amazon, prices being the same?

[CMcK]

I don’t use Amazon period.
They went for 17 years with only posting two profitable quarters which allowed them to steam roller all the other retailers that are expected to make a profit and a greater profit in subsequent years too. Now I can’t go into town and buy the latest CD, UHD or game I’d like buy.

[wakka]

Honestly, as much as I have a vague ambient anxiety about Amazon's dominance and power (much as I do with Google), CDs, UHDs and games were disappearing from the high street anyway. Physical music and films are specialist items now, with the mainstream only using digital. Games are headed the same way.

[cutmymilk]

That is a valid point. I remember before amazon even and people lamenting supermarkets for selling games cheaper than Game and HMV. Also watch Greed starring Steve Coogan and never buy clothes again.

I haven't had a Mcdonalds since watching Super Size Me in 2004 so I'm just as irrational as everyone else here!

[wakka]

The thing with Amazon is, they treat their workers like crap, they avoid paying tax, they rip off their own Marketplace sellers' products and undercut them, and Bezos dresses like a Cool Dad tool.

But you can order a full shop of groceries at, like, 6pm, and it's at your door by 9pm. So bury the principles down deep is what I say.

[cutmymilk]

I was thinking about that. How annoyed must Tesco and co be that they built a complicated delivery system, have to pay for upkeep on refrigerated vans, employ managers and drivers etc etc, then along come amazon with a gig system for taxi drivers to deliver morrisons shopping in between fares.

[wakka]

Yeah, to be fair, the Amazon system is a bit chaotic in comparison. I see people on my road getting deliveries from Tesco etc - the neatly organised totes drawn out of chilled, colour coded drawers in the specially designed van. Then my Amazon Fresh turns up and it's just a sweaty bloke hauling paper bags out of the back of an X reg Corsa.

It's insane how fast it is though.

[Dogg Thang]

I was thinking about that. How annoyed must Tesco and co be that they built a complicated delivery system, have to pay for upkeep on refrigerated vans, employ managers and drivers etc etc, then along come amazon with a gig system for taxi drivers to deliver morrisons shopping in between fares.

I don’t know if you work for Amazon. At this point, people can be in no doubt about Amazon’s practices and how they only serve Amazon, not people who work for them (side point - the gig economy is mostly horrendous for people). You can justify the purchases, sure. I still buy from them too. But we need to see it for what it is.

[cutmymilk]

I don't work for amazon. You are right that gig working is horrendous and should not even be a thing in a developed country. Blame the government for that though. Amazon, deliveroo, Just Eat, dominoes, uber and every chippy in the country take advantage of this type of labour and workers who are taking on these jobs need more rights.

Side side point. Im sure we have all seen Tesla Ubers. How does that happen?