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Returnal - PS5

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    #16
    I just popped the system into rest mode andresumed where I was when I nipped back on. To be honest, and I know there'sdifferent schools of thought on this, it's a game that taps into thefrustration of a development studio being stubborn about their games vision.Like the Souls games, it's forced audience limitation just to stick to a designdecision that benefits the few.

    It means as well that a ton of responsibility rests on thedevs to ensure the games systems, mechanics, progression etc is absolutely on point.It would cost Returnal, Souls etc absolutely nothing to include flexibleoptions on difficulty, checkpointing and saves anymore than Last of Us does foroffering Easy through Survival modes with extensive custom options. Basicallychasing making one person feel a sense of accomplishment for perserving with aboss or section till they eventually beat it with little regard for the twentyothers who turn it off and never return because god forbid they have other lifepriorities than replaying the same section of game ad nauseum.

    I've gone through a Dark Souls game on PC with assists forcedon it and... it was more fun than any other attempt at the games I've made has ever been.Hell, it never crosses their mind that it might actually encourage a player toget used to the systems and to learn the mechanics and timings etc and become afan of the game to feel more likely to try default run. An easier Returnalwould probably play like a really fun action shooter because the mechanics aresolid enough to support the experience. I've no issue if such a playthroughlimits story, areas, trophies etc either.

    I'm not sure if its purely a stubborness or a lack of faiththat the rest of the experience without the punishment/payoff element won'thold up but it just feels like a trend that wastes opportunity and audience.Looking back I think I've tried so many of these games because ultimately the rest of the product does appeal if it weren't for this one aspect. Hopefully Sony eventually opensthe game up to PC and I can try it on a more open platform where simpleenjoyment isn't too much of an ask.

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      #17
      I like the sense of achievement as I pass each ball ache with these games. If difficulty settings were there I'd have me mate telling me he's finished it and has moved on like he went for a walk in the park. I know this may seem silly. It's how single player experiences can carry competitiveness where you talk about where you are up to in the game with your friends. Talk about tips etc.

      I like that games like this exist. They force you to git gud (sorry :P). It's like the olden days. The risk and reward game is a genre.
      Last edited by hudson; 05-05-2021, 07:26.

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        #18
        Originally posted by hudson View Post
        I like the sense of achievement as I pass each ball ache with these games. If difficulty settings were there I'd have me mate telling me he's finished it and has moved on like he went for a walk in the park. I know this may seem silly. It's how single player experiences can carry competitiveness where you talk about where you are up to in the game with your friends. Talk about tips etc.

        I like that games like this exist. They force you to git gud (sorry :P). It's like the olden days. The risk and reward game is a genre.
        The problem here is it doesn't have any carrot to make you play it again and again, Hades Souls, and dead cells all have progress systems that make you feel stronger while they teach you how to play the game, These systems give you something to work towards but will only take you so far as you still require skill to progress. A gun upgrade system that you could work towards with a max level per Biome would take out some of the bad RNG, out and give runs a feel of progression.

        Some runs you get nothing but rubbish, My first time to the first boss i was lucky though I had a health refresh a spaceman and a decent lvl 4 weapon, this felt pretty good but its entirely down to rng what you get. my next run at the boss it gave me side arm after side arm and that crap shotgun that is useless for the boss as the further away you are the easier he is.

        It really could of been amazing but its not going to be for everyone the punishing difficulty and lack of a feeling of progression is probably gonna be a big turn off for quite a few people.

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          #19
          I think that's part of the issue, being a hard game isn't enough. The vast majority of games can be cranked up in difficulty and deliver the same experience of besting a difficult hurdle with dedication and that feels a little lost on Returnal. I don't get on with Souls but at the same time can see how much consideration has gone into it ensure little rewards and things that ease the experience are sprinkled in with care and precision to try and keep the player engaged beyond the traditional difficulty increase. Returnal leans to hard to the traditional angle of 'start again'

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            #20
            I think it does give you that reward, As you get over certain hurdles, you get permanent rewards and shortcuts that keep you experiencing something new, how much you decide to invest in each run is up to you. I beat the 2nd boss last night by fully going through Areas 1 and 2. I could have gone straight to the boss in less than 5 minutes but thought it was worth the prep. I ended up getting past not using my save state or extra life so I did a load of extra work but I enjoyed playing the game. If I'd died again I would have 'lost' 2 hours but its really not that sort of game.

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              #21
              Proper game, and the people who are moaning have probably not finished it and seen it all, yet they are saying it not a top title, it is the only game on the system not a remake or on other systems, its built for the PS5 and a worthy first year game.

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                #22
                whelp the devs just put put a tweet warning people to not have auto update on as their is a patch going live today (May 5th 7pm no patch notes yet its probably just fixing the pre-order suit glitch), if you have auto update on it will shut the game down and patch it for you in rest mode. This kind of highlights why their Rest mode save system is not fit for purpose. A system shutdown a power-spike or as happened to me my cat sitting on the plug and turning off the tv could prematurely end your run.

                Somebody on Reddit pointed out that The Binding of Issac has save states that are wiped on death (they update each room) as this is quite corridor based it makes sense that they could add a system like this so you don't have to commit 4 hours of your life every-time you fancy a full run. i really want to play this tonight but if my kids want to play the ps5 with the current system my ps5 is now a Returnal machine.

                Edit--- so if you plug a keyboard into the ps5 their are various testing features still active on the game at present

                Nothing massively useful as everything requires you to grind still, their is a button command for jumping straight to biome 3 one for dropping weapons at your current lvl and one that warps you back to the ship.
                Last edited by Lebowski; 05-05-2021, 14:48.

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                  #23
                  The patch will probably wipe out the current dev/test input codes you can put in to generate better guns from the start!

                  Instantly probably making physical copies bump up in price!

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                    #24
                    Maybe we could make an Idiots guide to returnal, no story spoilers just gameplay tips things we've found out so far

                    Not sure if its widely know but in the first area you can return to the ship and rest to Regen your health as many times as you want, it doesn't even Regen enemy's either. With the warps being next to bosses and challenge zones its well worth topping yourself off before these.

                    Mele stuns enemy's, i initially backed away from the bigger enemy's but you can melee them to stun them and they stay down for quite a bit you can use this to get to cover or lay into them if you get caught by their melee attack.

                    Range is your friend in early game the first boss is best tackled at range so the shotgun is rubbish for him and a lot of the enemy's in the first area aren't great if your too close either, the first bosses melee is his hardest attack to avoid and the further away you are the better chance you have of avoiding him.
                    Last edited by Lebowski; 05-05-2021, 15:52.

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                      #25

                      Don't update the game mid-run

                      The difficulty aspect is definitely more an irritation of my own than the game, the one thing I'll definitely hold by though is this might be a PS5 exclusive but it's very blatantly a mid-budget PS4 project bumped to the new system. It's not 'next-gen' in any way at all. Still, wish Sony had more true exclusives on the cards.

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                        #26
                        Artistically, Returnal will give most AAAAA titles a run for their money. The sound design is remarkable. The Prometheus vibes are nailed.

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                          #27
                          On top of the tip about returning to your ship. If you are at full health the health containers turn into resin that will increase your health bar so it’s worth avoiding all health pickups and then scooping them up once you’ve healed at the ship.

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                            #28
                            This might be obvious to all but the sticky vines are elevators to higher levels where pickups can be found and the chests behind gates are opened with a nearby switch, if you aim in the right direction you get an audio cue.

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                              #29
                              Post patch, you can only go back to your ship once to rest.

                              Oh and that's when the patch re-releases, as it got pulled because of a Save error. I've left the patch on and I was getting said errors, but I rebooted the PS5 and it seems to be gone. Probably done some save game damage or something, but seems ok so far. If you have the patch and want rid of it, just re-download the game from the store.

                              I saw they added Souls-esque ghosts of other-users dying in-game which you can inspect and choose to Avenge (for 4 Ether) or Salvage (for 3? Ether). I chose to avenge and my god I was put in the ring with a horrible baddie who ring-fenced me in with it, bullet hell and electrocuted the ground. I was dead in seconds

                              I still can't beat the first boss and I've died about 20-odd times. I keep going back for me punishment though.
                              Last edited by hudson; 06-05-2021, 08:59.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by hudson View Post
                                Post patch, you can only go back to your ship once to rest.

                                Oh and that's when the patch re-releases, as it got pulled so a Save error. I've left the patch on and I was getting said errors, but I rebooted the PS5 and it seems to be gone. Probably done some save game damage or something, but seems ok so far. If you have the patch and want rid of it, just re-download the game from the store.

                                I saw they added a Souls-esque showing of dying other-users in the game which you can inspect and choose to Avenge (for 4 Ether) or Salvage (for 3? Ether). I chose to avenge and my god I was put in the ring with a horrible baddie who ring-fenced me in with it, bullet hell and electrocuted the ground. I was dead in seconds

                                I still can't be the first boss and I've died about 20-odd times. I keep going back for me punishment though.
                                So to start my evening two hours into a really solid run the game crashed i had amazing weapons and pick ups and it was AlI going pretty well until the crash, before restarting i updated the game which was supposed to sort out the crashes but..... i got the save glitch every-time i interacted with anything it popped up a massive screen filling corrupted save Message which is interesting as its obviously auto saving data every time an item drops why? they don't persist through runs?

                                Housemarque need to employ some game testers as this is just crap, and after last nights debacle Ive lost complete faith in the game under its current set up. I think i'm gonna shelve it till its at least in a stable state as i don't like being a beta tester on a £70 game. My top tip for those that do continue is if your at the start of a run leave the dead bodys of yourself alone as they will **** you up.
                                Last edited by Lebowski; 06-05-2021, 12:27.

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