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Castlevania: Lament Of Innocence (PS2)

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    Castlevania: Lament Of Innocence (PS2)

    Couldn't see a dedicated thread to this game, so thought I would start one.

    I've been tempted to purchase this for a while now, but never actually took the plunge. After watching some more video footage of it a few minutes ago, I'm pretty much convinced that I should buy. Just before I splash out, can anyone who has played the game give some impressions? I couldn't see a review on the main page, and all IGN's/Gamespot's stuff is insider access (plus I don't really rate their opinions as highly as the forum members').

    How does it play?

    Is it similar to Devil MAy Cry 1?

    Is there a lot of level/enemy variety?

    I must say that the videos I've seen make it look like a winner.

    #2
    Ay up. As you so kindly helped me out with my PC problems, here's some opinions of mine, which I posted elsewhere....

    On the plus side, the graphics are nice in places, the effects are very good and the character animation is superb. Miraculously, the storyline manages to be both gothic and melodramatic, yet really interesting and well-acted (using the original Japanese voice acting option, not the risible US one). The story of the Belmont origins is well told and quite captivating in places.

    On the minus side, many of the levels are bland, and severely lack the Castlevania atmosphere. There are not enough clever Gothic touches or uses of artwork to reinforce the impression of being in the Castlevania universe.
    The hub system is unnecessary, and feels like a step backwards after the progressive, Metroid-esque structure of Symphony of the Night (a fair comparison, as it?s by the same team, and was the last ?proper?, next gen CV release). Bafflingly, some of the ?levels? are tougher than others ? a bizarre move for a game with a hub structure. I tackled what turned out to be the hardest levels first (Ghostly Theatre and Dark Palace of Waterfalls), and was left with a doddle of a run to complete Anti-Soul Mysteries Lab and Garden Forgotten by Time. To do both, and beat their respective bosses, took me about 1 ? hours

    Size really does matter, too. Although I?ve found practically none of the (very well-hidden) secrets, to be fair, I?m on the very last leg of the game with only 6 hours on the clock. And this is with practically no back-tracking or restarts, as well. Compared to the greats of the series (the SFC and PSOne/Saturn versions plus, I hear, Aria of Sorrow), this is miniscule. I reckon I could play it again and do the entire thing in under 3 hours. Bear in mind I only got this Monday, and have only played it 3 nights, and you can gauge how small the bugger is.

    Combat is good, but will be compared to Devil May Cry constantly ? rightly and wrongly. It?s closer in feel to Chaos Legion, with a tiny bit of Vagrant Story thrown-in (principally, how the enemies react to elemental weapons). Combos are easy to pull off and interesting, and there is a good use of sound effects.

    The one huge problem I have with the game is the power-up system. As it has such a reductive hub system, special weapons are confined to the secret areas, which require tedious back-tracking after keys and artefacts are found in the more obscure corners of the castle. There is no RPG-lite element a la Symphony, so you do not get regular upgrades that have plus and minus points. You don?t level-up, either. Because of the sparse distribution of weapons and accessories, combat gets repetitive, and there is no real feeling of increased power until you have either scoured the place for secrets, on foot, without warp points (boooorrrriiing), or until you get the:

    Vampire Killer whip near the end.

    The music is good, although not as good or memorable as the previous games? high points. Loading is fast, and there is never a hint of slowdown. I?m not good with these things, but the frame rate appears to be locked at a constant rate, and the environments are solid, with zero glitching. Technically, it?s pretty tight.

    Another key thing to mention is that the puzzles are laughably easy, and there is hardly any whip-jumping needed. Even when you do use it to negotiate platforms, there is no control over speed as in the earlier games ? all the swinging is automatic. For shame, Konami, for shame

    All-in-all, a good game with good replay value [edit - no, it ain't, in retrospect!]:
    (After completion, you can play as the excellent Joachim, I hear, which changes the game totally),

    with a rich plot that adds even more depth to the CV ?legend?, but far too short and uninspired compared to the greats of the series. Using our scoring criteria, it gets a 5/10 from me.
    ......

    After the fact, I'd take a fair few more positive points away from it on top of the above. The game is pure bland, and not even in the same league, or even sport, as DMC..

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for the heads-up on that mate. Sounds like a bit of a let-down all around. The length really bothers me, especially as I don't have money to burn at the moment, and can only really afford to buy games that deliver a lot of content. Even the cool story would be fairly wasted as I'd be getting the Japanese version. Think I'll give this a miss now (at least for the time being). I was going to be expecting a DMC beater, and this clearly isn't. Thanks for saving me some money Treb.

      Comment


        #4
        Edit - sorted.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Treble
          No problem. God knows what's up with the size in the second half of that post though. You can see that.....right?
          Yep, a bit big but totally readable.

          Comment


            #6
            Bummer man.... that's a bummer.

            I too was hoping for some uber-cool DMC alike. I guess it'll still be a while before anyone topples Dante from the perch of the action-adventure-survival horror genre.

            Comment


              #7
              I'm going to largely disagree with Treble - I really enjoyed the game - although the game is far from perfect and many of treble's points are valid.

              Graphically its good rather then stunning - using full 3d backgrounds rather then the prerendered stuff in DMC or Rygar means its not quite a pretty as those two but the dynamic camera and far more enemies at once make it a very different game from DMC in many ways.

              The game does play very much like a classic Castlevania game in full 3D - perhaps what a third person metroid update would have been like. Combat is fast paced and fun - individual enemies tend to be disposed of quickly rather then some of the evil rock hard gits in DMC and attack in numbers rather the sheer strength. Interestingly the structure for me is more like the early 'vania games the SON and the GBA titles - each level is pretty self contained and tightly designed. exploration is rewarded with secrets on each level, but metroidesque returning to levels to use a new power up are rare (although not completely abscent).

              I'm surprised that you didn't find any of the secrets on a first walk through Treble - with a couple of exceptions most of them just require a bit of looking to find an exit/beam in a room with no seeming purpose and then working out how to get up there. The whip can also be powered up fairly early on in the game...

              Originally posted by spoiler
              There are three secret elemental bosses in dark palace, garden and lab which give you better whips after dying
              To me perhaps its not a game to be rushed - careful exploration, just like in SON/metroid pays dividends...

              The games length however is a problem, whilst i disagree about the hub system (its pretty obvious from the opening seconds of dark palace vs anti soul which is the best order to play them in), the game does take a couple of levels to get going. Once you get onto Garden forgotten by time the game does warm up considerably. However its not until near the end of the game that any real challenge comes in, the early bosses in particular and far too easy, as in beat first time easy - but then again SON wasn't all that hard to 'complete'. nevertheless i think perhaps another couple of levels on a similar difficultly level to dark palace would have improved the lifespan considerably. Its a shame just as the game really starts to get good, its over...

              I loved the back story which explains all the little Castlevania quirks (the Belmont whip is rock hard because its enchanted, there's always weapons and cash around left by earlier failed vampire hunters, the items shops run by a friendly guy in the castle's backyard exists because the vampire likes his challengers to stand a fighting chance) and there's a couple of neat twists towards the end. The script and voice acting however are truly awful and almost kill some cut scenes dead (particulary the drawn out opening).

              The soundtrack to me is again classic castlevania - the theme on the final level is quite wonderful!

              Overall there's probably 10-12 hours play on a leisurly first run through - all of it enjoyable and some of it excellent. However I doubt there's much replay value (have had a blast with Joachim after completion and he doesn't change things enough to bother playing things all the way through again). So it depends how much play you like to get out of your games - for me 12 hours entertainment is not bad value for money but thats a whole other argument.

              I'd give it a 7/10. Great fun whilst it lasts and well worth getting but a little too short and questionable replay value.


              (sorry this is soooo long, got a little carried away!)

              Comment


                #8
                scribbles line thru game on want list :/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Did anyone really expect a CV4 beater?

                  The previews hinted at all the above mentioned problems. After the game was supposed to be held-back to get the quality up, I heard the alarm-bells ringing. It looks like they decided to release it without improvements, probably because it would take quite a while to improve the disappointing aspects.

                  Oh well, another reasonanle CV game but its back to the snes for my skeleton whipping.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Sounds good so sorry to hear it so short ws lookin fwd to this though.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Some well made points, dreamy. It seems as if posting after me automatically means you are right though: "Sounds good" etc.

                      Well, I'm hardly a n00b to adventure games, and I knew the elementals required some trekking. **** that - I'm not plodding back and forth simply because Konami don't know how to implement a warp feature properly.

                      As I said elsewhere, the game feels rushed.
                      "Also, CV: LoI feels like a testbed for a sequel: you can see they are trying-out ideas to gauge whether they work or not, hence the conflicting impressions (some bits work really well, others flop spectacularly), and the whole thing feels rushed. I'd be surprised if there wasn't already a sequel in the works that will be out as early as maybe a year's time. "

                      Yod@:
                      "Having played this a bit more, I'd tend to agree with Treble - particularly regarding the lack of regular weapon/stats upgrades, and the disappointing map size.

                      And there's no need for all the corridors to look so similar! *yawn* "

                      Me:
                      "If the best bits of the game are the storyline and the combat against large groups of enemies with different weaknesses, the worst bits are definitely the stupid f**king backtracking along infinitely repeated corridors :angry:

                      Should have stuck some warp points in there, Konami, FFS."

                      Yod@: "suspect that Konami thought the new "hub system" would do away with the need for warp points (? la Metroid Prime), but the repetitive corridors swiftly kill any enjoyment of travelling through a level."

                      Also, the further-on you go, the more you realise that all the great touches from all the better games have failed to be implemented: the music lacks atmosphere and feels like a reprise of earlier glories, the BGs and general gfx are characterless and repetitive, most of the bosses are repeats and lack imagination, the game is too short, too easy and badly structured.

                      It's just a totally banal game, IMO, and a tarnish on the license. Instead of being the breakthrough next-gen game it ought to have been, it takes a step back, again showing the brilliance Retro Studios worked in successfully making Metriod an exciting 3D incarnation.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Are there any details on the next Castlevania for GBA? Thats where the franchise can still show its strength I believe.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Treble
                          Some well made points, dreamy. It seems as if posting after me automatically means you are right though: "Sounds good" etc.

                          Well, I'm hardly a n00b to adventure games, and I knew the elementals required some trekking. **** that - I'm not plodding back and forth simply because Konami don't know how to implement a warp feature properly.

                          As I said elsewhere, the game feels rushed.
                          "Also, CV: LoI feels like a testbed for a sequel: you can see they are trying-out ideas to gauge whether they work or not, hence the conflicting impressions (some bits work really well, others flop spectacularly), and the whole thing feels rushed. I'd be surprised if there wasn't already a sequel in the works that will be out as early as maybe a year's time. "

                          Yod@:
                          "Having played this a bit more, I'd tend to agree with Treble - particularly regarding the lack of regular weapon/stats upgrades, and the disappointing map size.

                          And there's no need for all the corridors to look so similar! *yawn* "

                          Me:
                          "If the best bits of the game are the storyline and the combat against large groups of enemies with different weaknesses, the worst bits are definitely the stupid f**king backtracking along infinitely repeated corridors :angry:

                          Should have stuck some warp points in there, Konami, FFS."

                          Yod@: "suspect that Konami thought the new "hub system" would do away with the need for warp points (? la Metroid Prime), but the repetitive corridors swiftly kill any enjoyment of travelling through a level."

                          Also, the further-on you go, the more you realise that all the great touches from all the better games have failed to be implemented: the music lacks atmosphere and feels like a reprise of earlier glories, the BGs and general gfx are characterless and repetitive, most of the bosses are repeats and lack imagination, the game is too short, too easy and badly structured.

                          It's just a totally banal game, IMO, and a tarnish on the license. Instead of being the breakthrough next-gen game it ought to have been, it takes a step back, again showing the brilliance Retro Studios worked in successfully making Metriod an exciting 3D incarnation.

                          hehe I'm not claiming to be the world 'vania expert Treble and your opinion is just as valid as mine. You pays your money folks you takes your pick! I just feel your being a little harsh on what is still a decent game.

                          I do agree that the game does have the slight feel of a prototype to it, the size and occasional design flaws do point to work in progress. No doubt the game would have benefitted from longer in development. I'd welcome a sequel but here's hoping the timescale is a little longer then a year off...LOI 2 will really need to be longer and more challenging!

                          I don't think warp points would have added that much however, few of the levels are big enough to cause huge amounts time to be wasted traversing them - compared with the closing stages of say Zelda:TWW. And the elementals need less wandering and more careful examination to discover (you don't need to back track/ need items from other levels a la metroid to find them).

                          There are too many samy corridors with little going on however...esp on the early levels.

                          So no DMC beater (infact not much like DMC at all if the truth be told) and not an equal to SON, but its hardly a tarnish on the IP. Good fun and often compelling whilst it lasts....shame it doesn't for too long!

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