Odin Sphere [PS2]

[GordonJ]

Neither in the JPN version. I think it reads the PS2 system configuration and adapts to it, just like Grim Grimoire.

4:3 for me, no matter which option I select in the system settings

[briareos_kerensky]

Uh. I'll double check the JPN version, I didn't felt like the image was stretched over to 16:9.

[edit] OK, I'm an idiot. It's 4:3 glory, the image is stretched. 4:3 only. Sorry for the wrong info.

[Eight Rooks]

Jesus Christ. I like the game, to an extent, but 1Up were right, this is exactly like Final Fantasy Tactics. Get too far without grinding so hard the disc falls out of the bottom of your PS2 and you are screwed. Took me twenty tries or more to defeat the third boss because I had no potions left and now the first mini-boss on the fourth chapter is just demolishing me. I can't take this; no health, no quick seeds, no money... guess it's time to start the entire game again and when it suggests you might want to revisit earlier stages for phat lewts, play the forest levels until my eyes fall out of my head.

It's utterly gorgeous, and it's fun and rewarding enough I'd like to keep at it (unlike FF Tactics, which never quite clicked with me) but Jesus is the balance ever somewhat suspect. Don't play precisely, accurately, never hammering the buttons, blocking at exactly the right times, constantly making potions, constantly replaying every stage until they're all S-ranked, and, well, not pretty. I was hoping for something a little less hardcore, to be honest.

I'm not entirely saying it's a difficult game; WorthPlaying slighted the mechanics for being too open to exploits (the Painkiller potion does seem to be way, way too powerful) and I can see that if you get things right the enemies could go down like that *snaps fingers* ... but as far as I'm concerned if you mess up in the slightest it punishes you way too severely.

[Spatial]

I think its appearance is what's so deceptive about it.

On the surface it looks like a side scrolling slash 'em up but there's a tonne of stuff going on and you have to be on ball to cope with it.

Like you say, blocking, attacking, item management, levelling etc all have to be balanced or else you're going to struggle. And the obligatory grinding leaves you in no doubt that you're playing an RPG and not a 2D button masher fighter. I think this is what will catch people out - if you go in with preconceived ideas of what you want from the game based on some pretty screens and the odd video then you're going to be disappointed or frustrated.

There's definitely some real balancing and difficulty spike issues in there though (i.e. some of the bosses). They aren't impossible but it does seem to be all about getting their attack patterns down and managing your inventory properly (easier said than done when swamped).

While using hardcore in the traditional sense of the word doesn't quite fit, I wouldn't say its an entirely wrong turn of phrase. Niche might be a better way of describing it - the whole game just screams it.

The fact that under the hood it's a true RPG but with the added concept of having to memorise attack patterns for larger enemies / bosses and time what your doing with the smaller ones, combined with the 2D graphics means that this is something you'll either love in spades or hate the arse off.

[Eight Rooks]

Various other little things don't help - the fact that (initially at least) you can only reduce damage, not negate it - the fact that blocking penalises you (essentially) as much as attacking - or the fact that you are expected to use your items, you cannot just hoard them. Well, you can, but if you can get through the bosses on reflexes alone you really have no business asking for help on this game ever. Even just the dragon at the end of the first chapter - I just started again trying to save what potions and seeds the game had given me up 'til that point and ended up wondering why he was suddenly so hard - the answer of course being that I'd pelted him with napalm and harvested a bloody vineyard in the process the first time around.

Also, though the bosses are fairly obvious, they're not that predictable and they do occasionally seem to randomise their attacks - totally different genre, obviously, but they're nothing like Lost Planet, say.

I do like it a lot, I don't think it's really... too hard per se and it's difficult this early to articulate what I feel is wrong with it. But it's definitely not a perfect game. Good, unquestionably good, but like you say a lot of people are justifiably going to loathe it.

[Bassman]

I am currently finding the game confusing. The Tutorial did not cover all the things you will need. I ought to look at the manual, but most games seem to at least go over what you can do. Buying stuff I found out by accident. As for using Napalm the first flask was easy. Using the second seemed to be somewhat difficult. I died twice and decided to start from my (distant) save as I had not figured what to do with the chests at the end of a stage until a few stages in.

I agree that it looks superb. The gameplay though definitely takes some learning. Basics were convered just fine in the Tutorial.

I shall persevere...

[GordonJ]

I found the mini chests annoying, especially as they disappear so quickly.

[Spatial]

Further I'm getting in to this the more I'm enjoying it above the visuals. Although it really does get more and more lovely (the design of Gwendolin's chamber and the limited view from the balcony was gorgeous).

There are definite patterns to the bosses. It's important to resist the urge to steam in and try and whack them into submission. I've read about a lot of people complaining about the first encounter with

->Open Spoiler<-

Lord Brigan

because he's a bit of a tough sod and deals out lots of damage.

But he's easy once you get him down and realise that you need to be balancing fruit management and combating the enemies that appear for growth alongside keeping your distance and getting in when the time is right.

Whatever you do though, don't restart saves. You can either quit back to the start of the stage with current stats (very important) and build up more items or just save and then restart via Alice and Socrates. That way you can go off and level up to your hearts content. Redoing previous stages is handy cos the ultimate boss battles required to progress are removed, meaning you can move from section to section as you want and then just go to where the boss should be to end it.

I see you can purchase more satchels and bags to put stuff in. I've bought one and noticed the traders still have them up for sale - anyone know if you can buy multiple bags of the same type or is there a limit?

[Eight Rooks]

I'm only on four bags, I think it was, so no idea if there's a limit.

And yes, there are certainly patterns to the bosses, I haven't really had trouble working them out so far... for me it was just that if you don't do things in a certain way or if you make the tiniest mistake trying to block or avoid various attacks the game punishes you severely, and often even if you've worked out most of what's going on there's some extra bit that might not be so obvious.

With the dragon, for example,

->Open Spoiler<-

how the hell can you block the debris falling from above and avoid being eaten when he sucks you in?

I mean, I beat him, obviously, but that was hugely frustrating.

With you-know-who - spoiler'd in case someone wants to find tactics out fior themselves,

->Open Spoiler<-

Brigan - you're supposed to notice that those tiny little round plates falling off mean you're actually exposing a critical vulnerability? I suppose it probably seems obvious to everyone else but that really bugged me. Plus what the hell do the amphora-bearers do if you let them survive? I could tell the waves of four stick new armour back on him (though they move so fast it's practically impossible to stop them) but there didn't seem to be any point to the single one. Plus that ghastly attack he does when he pours mead on your head - no real indication when he's about to pull that one off, plus it deals hideous damage - perfectly capable of dizzying you, setting you on fire and if he jumps on your head before you've recovered he can take off several hundred hitpoints quite easily.

And

->Open Spoiler<-

if you don't have a Freeze charm, then Jesus wept, the snowflakes...

Oddly enough I found steaming in was probably the most effective way of dealing with him since

->Open Spoiler<-

you badly need to keep knocking the armour off

.

Like I said, I love it. Finished Gwendolyn's fourth chapter and even though he wasn't too hard the boss -

->Open Spoiler<-

possessed Odin

- that was one of the most enjoyable fights I've had in a videogame for a looong time. God I love his sprite, it's absolutely fantastic. And even with the horrible loading times, the graphics for the restaurant/cafe! Ow, ow, ow, my eyes! Hurts so goooood...

Had to finally grab some sleep so I've only just woken up, heh, but I think I know what I'll be playing for the rest of today.

[Spatial]

I didn't tackle him like that.

Basically I

->Open Spoiler<-

used Gwendoline's dive attack. Because of his size he's very slow so if you use the stage to get behind him to start and then dive him, he usually ends up facing the wrong way from you. Repeat and then dispatch the guards as needed. Back off if you think he's about to steam roller, start stomping, grab you etc. Mix it in with Phozon attacks and Napalm and he'll soon go down.

I also had little problem with the freezing things and didn't even have a Freeze Charm (needed the space ). Just glide along and then attack when they're in range and it seemed to work 99% of the time.

I guess there's two good example of the games depth and that there's a variety of different solutions to tackling things.

[Bassman]

FInally figured out what I should do. It is still easy to get things wrong though. I need more bags definitely. Levelled up reasonably well now having figured that it was the Phozons or Items that geve me EXP. Haven't tried the first dragon boss yet.

[Eight Rooks]

Now there's an annoying little feature, unless I'm completely missing something; shopkeepers always give you your change in 1s, so you can't use them in the restaurant or cafe. *Grumble mumble* can't give me two bloody fives for a bloody ten *grumble mumble*

[SunLolly]

Game is beautiful but god !! the slowdown on that last boss for Gwendolin....probably the worst slowdown I have ever seen in my years of gaming. Its like they didnt bother play-testing that one !

On the third chapter for that pooka guy, game is starting to get a lil bit repetive but still strangely adictive. Its good for short bursts of play though.

I never played Princess Crown, was the item managment in that game as bad as this ? its a very very poor design imo.

[Eight Rooks]

I wish people would stop saying things along the lines of "it's like they didn't bother play-testing this". It's not as if it doesn't bother me, but still, is it that hard to believe Vanillaware just went "okay, we can either have it looking this good but with horrible, horrible slowdown, or we can, well, cut the detail back here, and here, and here, and here, and..." ? I'll take the slideshow every time, thanks.

And the item management doesn't bother me too much, either; the biggest problem with it for me is not the ring system, more that items are sometimes a little hard to distinguish against the background. I've made poor choices more than once because of that.

It's flawed, but really not that horribly so. It's perfectly manageable, the slowdown rarely if ever puts you in serious danger (though I haven't finished Gwendolyn yet, so eh) and you don't need that much item space - it's just every other RPG giving you the opportunity to act like a packrat that makes people think they need fifty more bags or whatever.

[Bassman]

Finished off the first dragon boss fairly easily. I was Level 11/11 which helped somewhat.

Had an interesting glitch earlier. Got to the Alchemy Mix Tutorial stage. Unfortunately both bags were full. THe only thing it wanted was for me to mix something so it wouldn't let me eat an item to give me some space. I had to switch off...

Make sure you have at least one free slot before going to a new area.