Juno

[funkydan]

Its her ex stripper name http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1959505/

Um, nope!

Diablo Cody is a pen name. Took her pen name on a trip to Cody, Wyoming. "Diablo" is Spanish for "devil".

[usman]

Saw this film months ago; terrible, I thought. Plus, too...'all-American', so to speak, not in a good way - and the inclusion of the buffoon from these imbecilic all-white casted buffoon revenge-of-the-sweaty, badly-dressed, pimply revolting nerds films such as Superbad was more than annoying as it carried a similar theme; give minorities some fair representation for once, other than blacks, in American cinema and I will then find dredging up the lowlifes and rejects of the majority race as objects of admiration humorous, not simply a different way of imposing a celluloid falsehood of what and who is worthy as models of admiration, on a diverse society nothing like the majority of American cinema would have us believe - minorities do actually exist, we do go to the cinema like everyone else, we are not just doctors, terrorists, sidekicks, or staid boring old one-trick ponies - and no teenage girl the hell speaks like annoying bloody Ellen Page does.

Nor was I surprised when the North American public loved it, just as most people in Britain who watch that ****e unrealistic Eastenders see nothing wrong with it ("Ok, let's finally concede Asians exist in London, quick, make them interesting by making them child-abandoning and the children themselves incestuous. Also, throw an Ah-rab in there to play a brown man, nofink wrong in that, aint no one gonna see the difference innit'.) Piss-poor. 0/1000.

[funkydan]

Saw this film months ago; terrible, I thought. Plus, too...'all-American', so to speak, not in a good way - and the inclusion of the buffoon from these imbecilic all-white casted buffoon revenge-of-the-sweaty, badly-dressed, pimply revolting nerds films such as Superbad was more than annoying as it carried a similar theme; give minorities some fair representation for once, other than blacks, in American cinema and I will then find dredging up the lowlifes and rejects of the majority race as objects of admiration humorous, not simply a different way of imposing a celluloid falsehood of what and who is worthy as models of admiration, on a diverse society nothing like the majority of American cinema would have us believe - minorities do actually exist, we do go to the cinema like everyone else, we are not just doctors, terrorists, sidekicks, or staid boring old one-trick ponies - and no teenage girl the hell speaks like annoying bloody Ellen Page does.

Nor was I surprised when the North American public loved it, just as most people in Britain who watch that ****e unrealistic Eastenders see nothing wrong with it ("Ok, let's finally concede Asians exist in London, quick, make them interesting by making them child-abandoning and the children themselves incestuous. Also, throw an Ah-rab in there to play a brown man, nofink wrong in that, aint no one gonna see the difference innit'.) Piss-poor. 0/1000.

Wow! Where did all that come from? Juno is hardly an purposefully anti-Asian film!! I appreciate that minorities do exist and that they should receive fair representation in the media, but surely you don't hate every film that does not represent the Asian Community?

And I'm sorry, but there is no way that you can seriously compare Juno to the dross that is Eastenders? I think perhaps you've gone a bit off topic with your post - sure, you don't like the film, fine - cinema is as subjective as music or any other artistic medium - but it seems that you're implying that the film has gone out of its way to ignore the Asian community? It's concerned with a common situation that a young girl gets pregnant and doesn't know what to do. That's all, that's the story and there's nothing more to it than that.

Sorry if I've mis-understood your post though...

[usman]

Yeah, it was completely misunderstood; what you saw implied as the film ignoring the Asian community was not in any sense what I meant.
I also did not specifically mean Asians - whether we use i as the Brit term for Indians/Pakistanis or the Canadian/American one for southeast Asians - specifically, but minorities, any and all.

Yes, I know there are small, sleepy American towns that really only have white populations - what are the producers to do, one may ask - stick a false token character in, and in doing so, actually realise misrepresentation more than making an all-white film about a town that is actually all-white ever could? How could that make any sense? It couldn't. How could there be anything wrong with an innocent film about the experience of a young teenager getting pregant, and being unconventional about it? There can't be, really, and really - why shouldn't directors be allowed to make 'white' films without being censured for doing so? That is, until it's not done once, or twice, or thrice, or a dozen times. It's done over and over. And over. It is the standard.

'Lars and the Real Girl' as well, for example. Beautiful, unique story. Heartwarming. But made me very, very uneasy. Why?

Because such movies - about innocence, about the heartwarming and unique experiences of life - about love, pain, loss - about any real depth of emotion at all - in Hollywood, indepedent cinema or otherwise, are about white experiences, white families, white towns, white history. I'll name another recent favourite - The Savages. Is it really only white people who have such experiences? This is what I cannot stand. Even in movies where a minority is thrown in - The Namesake - the minority in question is 'whitified', so to speak.

Put it this way - Hollywood has currently tired of the longtime favourite male archetype, big, bold, good-looking, confident, tall, handsome, ladies' man - and white, of course (arguably black as well, mostly in token films, but also blockbusters). So instead of finally have the sense to focus on minorities - in Hollywood it would make so much sense to make a film with a powerful lead Asian character (as in SE Asian) to appeal to the young and wealthy Asian population in North America - marketing across the board recognises this and is already doing it. It's not even a question of reality or proprtianality - the money makes sense, the target demographic is there, the money is there.

But instead Hollywood switches gears to not minorities, not even 'Twinkie' minorities except in crap stoner flicks like Harold and Kumar - but to sweaty, pimply, unattractive, ass-scratching loser kids who are, surprise, white. It is now cool to be a greasy, porn-addicted, loser nerd - Superbad et al are leading the way here and this is yet another desirability standard being imposed on everyone. Everything celebrated in these films is specific, still, is specific to white American high school culture and experiences - with all-white casts.

It's really difficult to relate when you're of the majority race; after all, when one is, it's something you relate to, it's lighthearted, it's familiar, it's cute, it's heart-warming. And it certainly is in that context. But I grew up as a minority in the 80s and that was bad enough, being conditioned to idolize white models, and as any kid growing up then would tell you, always feeling inferior to larger white society. Society is supposed to be more intelligent than that now and it certainly is in so very many aspects, but in cinema? You'd never know. I did not enjoy a childhood where media made me feel growing up to be an alien, and I do not want my younger relatives or children going through that again nor should they have to. In fact it's worse now - watching TV and film now an Asian, in either Brit or Yank/Canuck usage, is going to certainly internalize the depictions on celluloid of him or her as a terrorist (24), buffoon (Harold and Kumar), or drift racer (still defeated in the end by a white man, a la Tokyo Drift).

As for comparing Eastenders and Juno in this respect, I believe I am spot-on. Both reflect an industry and a mindset that is in denial and hell, could even be said to be supremacist.

[Rossco]

I have no idea what you're trying to say and how it is any way related to this film!?

[funkydan]

With you on that Rossco - he's totally lost me?! Although I stand by what I said:

It's concerned with a common situation that a young girl gets pregnant and doesn't know what to do. That's all, that's the story and there's nothing more to it than that.

To say it is supremacist is ridiculous and an insult to those who have been victims of supremacy. It's a film, it's a work of art (whether you like it or not), and it is subjective so you might not like it. But what Juno is most definitely not is supremacist propaganda, ffs. It's also completely uncomparable with the likes of Eastenders!

[usman]

I have no idea what you're trying to say and how it is any way related to this film!?

Probably because you don't relate to the issue at hand, mate. It is relevant to the film but like I said, if you're of the majority race - in this case, white -
in question, you can't be blamed for not seeing the issue at all, or even if not, if it's not something you don't find concerning.


If you don't understand what I'm trying to say, I'm only making a point, not at all trying to create debate. My impressions are mine. =) Carry on.

[usman]

With you on that Rossco - he's totally lost me?! Although I stand by what I said:



To say it is supremacist is ridiculous and an insult to those who have been victims of supremacy. It's a film, it's a work of art (whether you like it or not), and it is subjective so you might not like it. But what Juno is most definitely not is supremacist propaganda, ffs. It's also completely uncomparable with the likes of Eastenders!

I agree with you, mate. That's the last thing it is. What I said was that it reflects an 'industry and mindset that is in denial and hell, could even be said to be supremacist'. That's the larger mindset and industry, again - not the film specifically, no, of course not. But is there a racial supremacist undercurrent in Hollywood and even in quality, independent cinema? Absolutely, as I said:

Yes, I know there are small, sleepy American towns that really only have white populations - what are the producers to do, one may ask - stick a false token character in, and in doing so, actually realise misrepresentation more than making an all-white film about a town that is actually all-white ever could? How could that make any sense? It couldn't. How could there be anything wrong with an innocent film about the experience of a young teenager getting pregant, and being unconventional about it? There can't be, really, and really - why shouldn't directors be allowed to make 'white' films without being censured for doing so? That is, until it's not done once, or twice, or thrice, or a dozen times. It's done over and over. And over. It is the standard.

'Lars and the Real Girl' as well, for example. Beautiful, unique story. Heartwarming. But made me very, very uneasy. Why?

Because such movies - about innocence, about the heartwarming and unique experiences of life - about love, pain, loss - about any real depth of emotion at all - in Hollywood, indepedent cinema or otherwise, are about white experiences, white families, white towns, white history. I'll name another recent favourite - The Savages. Is it really only white people who have such experiences? This is what I cannot stand.

Again these impressions are my own. I do not force them on anyone, nor am I trying to convince anyone. I only offer a different perspective. That is all.

[Hombre]

Yeah, it was completely misunderstood; what you saw implied as the film ignoring the Asian community was not in any sense what I meant.
I also did not specifically mean Asians - whether we use i as the Brit term for Indians/Pakistanis or the Canadian/American one for southeast Asians - specifically, but minorities, any and all.

Yes, I know there are small, sleepy American towns that really only have white populations - what are the producers to do, one may ask - stick a false token character in, and in doing so, actually realise misrepresentation more than making an all-white film about a town that is actually all-white ever could? How could that make any sense? It couldn't. How could there be anything wrong with an innocent film about the experience of a young teenager getting pregant, and being unconventional about it? There can't be, really, and really - why shouldn't directors be allowed to make 'white' films without being censured for doing so? That is, until it's not done once, or twice, or thrice, or a dozen times. It's done over and over. And over. It is the standard.

'Lars and the Real Girl' as well, for example. Beautiful, unique story. Heartwarming. But made me very, very uneasy. Why?

Because such movies - about innocence, about the heartwarming and unique experiences of life - about love, pain, loss - about any real depth of emotion at all - in Hollywood, indepedent cinema or otherwise, are about white experiences, white families, white towns, white history. I'll name another recent favourite - The Savages. Is it really only white people who have such experiences? This is what I cannot stand. Even in movies where a minority is thrown in - The Namesake - the minority in question is 'whitified', so to speak.

Put it this way - Hollywood has currently tired of the longtime favourite male archetype, big, bold, good-looking, confident, tall, handsome, ladies' man - and white, of course (arguably black as well, mostly in token films, but also blockbusters). So instead of finally have the sense to focus on minorities - in Hollywood it would make so much sense to make a film with a powerful lead Asian character (as in SE Asian) to appeal to the young and wealthy Asian population in North America - marketing across the board recognises this and is already doing it. It's not even a question of reality or proprtianality - the money makes sense, the target demographic is there, the money is there.

But instead Hollywood switches gears to not minorities, not even 'Twinkie' minorities except in crap stoner flicks like Harold and Kumar - but to sweaty, pimply, unattractive, ass-scratching loser kids who are, surprise, white. It is now cool to be a greasy, porn-addicted, loser nerd - Superbad et al are leading the way here and this is yet another desirability standard being imposed on everyone. Everything celebrated in these films is specific, still, is specific to white American high school culture and experiences - with all-white casts.

It's really difficult to relate when you're of the majority race; after all, when one is, it's something you relate to, it's lighthearted, it's familiar, it's cute, it's heart-warming. And it certainly is in that context. But I grew up as a minority in the 80s and that was bad enough, being conditioned to idolize white models, and as any kid growing up then would tell you, always feeling inferior to larger white society. Society is supposed to be more intelligent than that now and it certainly is in so very many aspects, but in cinema? You'd never know. I did not enjoy a childhood where media made me feel growing up to be an alien, and I do not want my younger relatives or children going through that again nor should they have to. In fact it's worse now - watching TV and film now an Asian, in either Brit or Yank/Canuck usage, is going to certainly internalize the depictions on celluloid of him or her as a terrorist (24), buffoon (Harold and Kumar), or drift racer (still defeated in the end by a white man, a la Tokyo Drift).

As for comparing Eastenders and Juno in this respect, I believe I am spot-on. Both reflect an industry and a mindset that is in denial and hell, could even be said to be supremacist.

Spot on, so glad there is someone else who sees this film for what it is and isn't part of the love-in going on in this thread.

[12-51-00]

I'm actually working with Fox Searchlight at the moment, the people who produced and distributed Juno, and while you've made a good observation about the all white cast I have to say for everything else you're talking total rubbish.

First off, if you'd care to look it up, in the same year as Juno they've also produced/distributed: The Namesake; Written by an Indian, directed by an Indian, starring many Indians/Indian-Americans actors. And The Dahjeerling Limited; A film actually set in India. Searchlight are also partly behind Bend it like Beckham, infact it's unlikely that film would have seen the light of day without them.

To say Juno is wrong for not having any Asian cast members is just totally stupid. The film is set in Minnesota, a state which probably as a smaller Asian community than Burnley. To throw in a 'minority', Asian or otherwise, would just be tokenism of the worse kind. Secondly I believe Eastenders has had, and still does have, many Asian and Black cast members in the past so that argument falls flat on it's face right there.

I will concede there is an issue with Hollywood studios and Islam. Mainly because the test audiences just never want to see it. Films are made to make money and if audiences don't want to see something studios just have to think twice about putting it in there. I could name a dozen films that have had scenes cut because there was a reference to Islam, or even a Muslim character, that didn't test well and on reflection didn't need to be there.

It's also completely uncomparable with the likes of Eastenders!

Dysfunctional families, a pregnant teenager, and a couple who can't have babies? No the two are poles apart...

That's just another example of pomposity among movie goers today. 'Oh you can't compare these two things because one is populist melodrama and the other is trendy, offbeat, and as a snazzy soundtrack.'

[funkydan]

Oh right, so I'm a pompous movie goer - thanks, I've been looking for a way to pigeon-hole myself but you've done it for me! I couldn't possibly just have a different opinion to yours. Just because you work in the industry, it doesn't give you the right to insult me. Eastenders is a shoddy, unbelievable, poor excuse for a TV program with terrible acting that should have been canned years ago whereas in my opinion, Juno is just a charming gentle funny film. I never said it was trendy or offbeat and I never mentioned the soundtrack. I merely disagreed with the comments that I found to be inappropriate.

[ezee ryder]

Come on guys, lets leave the insults/jibes out and get back to discussion about Juno. Thanks.

[usman]

I'm actually working with Fox Searchlight at the moment, the people who produced and distributed Juno, and while you've made a good observation about the all white cast I have to say for everything else you're talking total rubbish....First off, if you'd care to look it up, in the same year as Juno they've also produced/distributed: The Namesake; Written by an Indian, directed by an Indian, starring many Indians/Indian-Americans actors. ....To say Juno is wrong for not having any Asian cast members is just totally stupid....

I like your comment here. But where did this specific business with 'Asians' come in regarding Juno? I sure as heck never berated it for its lack of Asians - how ridiculous would it been had you had Asians of any kind in a story like this - would seem entirely forced, contrived - wouldn't it? I think so. My point is the mindset and the industry that create films like this - the films in themselves are not the problem - they are the symptom. But thanks for your input, though you might want to read my post again, or just the part I already quoted above.

[Rossco]

If you care so much then make a bloody thread about it, don't hijack a thread about a movie which is not at fault to anything your accusing.

[usman]

It's a thread about impressions on Juno, mate - I've given mine, responded in kind. You're free to disagree with what I said about it as much as I am free to give my own impressions from a different perspective than yours. Should you not like anything said, just skip over it and read what you agree with about what you enjoyed about a film you liked.