Retro Gamer Issue 61

[Team Andromeda]

And I don't know many that wouldn't consider Snatcher to be an AAA title

It was and so was Rise Of The Dragon , 2 games the Snes never had an answer too , if we want to play that silly game

[samanosuke]

It was and so was Rise Of The Dragon , 2 games the Snes never had an answer too , if we want to play that silly game

Yeah I know, the Lunar games were terrible too. What about Popful Mail? ****e game that, I tell you. And I always preferred Final Fight with one player, only two selectable characters and a missing level

I frequently hear people saying that Sonic CD is the only AAA title for the MCD and it irks me because it's so untrue.

[Team Andromeda]

I frequently hear people saying that Sonic CD is the only AAA title for the MCD and it irks me because it's so untrue.

Yeah , and in most cases those are the people that's never owned the system , or if they did just bought Final Fight and Sonic CD , its also winds me up when I see people say Thunder Hawk is the only game to use the harwdare tpp

There's quite a lot of brilliant software for the Mega CD, included some of the best PC to Console ports around at the time.
The Wing Commander port , was bloody brilliant and far better than any non PC version around at the time



And even the games that were simple MD ports benefited from better audio and presentation, made a big diff to the likes of the sports games imo

[Leon Retro]

I can only assume that none of you had a SNES? ... It's madness to say that the MegaCD delivered anything better than the SNES, let alone the Mega Drive. If you had the MD & SNES - there was no real reason to own the MCD. Any rational person, who didn't have money to burn, would have laughed at what Sega were offering with the MCD.

The only interesting thing the MCD really delivered - was a bit more power for sprite manipulation and rotation effects etc... The sort of things you'd seen in Sega's arcade machines from the 80s ( Outrun, Hang On, Space Harrier ) .. and SNES games ( Pilotwings, F-Zero, Mario Kart, ContraIII etc.. )

CD sound and FMV didn't add to the gameplay. I think most people just wanted fun games - and soon realised that FMV was pretty crap.

Batman Returns on the SNES is a better game than MCD Batman. If only Konami had made the MCD version - with the cool driving sections.. then it would have been a AAA experience.

I love gaming - and I want to enjoy as much as possible. The MCD didn't come close to matching the SNES ( because the SNES actually had AAA games ) ... I bought an American 3DO in 1994 - because it was the first CD console to offer something fresh. Crash & Burn, Road Rash 3DO, Need For Speed, all games that did inspire people to buy the machine. There wasn't really any strong reason to buy a MCD at the time - unless you had the spare cash to indulge in the few games worth playing. For normal kids, the cost wasn't justified.

I own around 10 MCD games - but I wouldn't call any of them classics. I play normal MD games far more. The MD beats the MCD - and that's a fact that drives home how poor an experience the MCD offered in the true light of day.

The MCD has always been a curio item. At least these days, it has the retro attraction to mask its deficiencies.

[Team Andromeda]

I take your having a piss take now ?

On the one hand you talk about having money to burn and the Mega CD being out of most people price range , to then saying you bought a 3DO , which at it launch was one of the most costly consoles ever made , and a console with out the same number of AAA and good games worth getting (and I'm a big fan of the 3DO btw)

I look over making out Batman is better on the Snes , or that I never owned or don't rate the Snes .
I liked and rate the Snes far higher than the Mega Drive , and made that point countless times on this board.

[Leon Retro]

I take your having a piss take now ?

On the one hand you talk about having money to burn and the Mega CD being out of most people price range , to then saying you bought a 3DO , which at it launch was one of the most costly consoles ever made , and a console with out the same number of AAA and good games worth getting (and I'm a big fan of the 3DO btw)

I look over making out Batman is better on the Snes , or that I never owned or don't rate the Snes .
I liked and rate the Snes far higher than the Mega Drive , and made that point countless times on this board.

Of course I'm taking the piss out of you and others who act like the MegaCD was and is great. It just amazes me that anyone can be so enthusiastic about the machine.

In my opinion it wasn't worth buying back in the day. You can't compare it to the 3DO. The 3DO was truely mind-blowing back in late 93, through to 95. When I first saw Crash & Burn at a computer show - it made the MD, SNES, MCD, everything on the market.. look old hat.

My whole point is not about "Are there any good games for the MCD?" Yes.. there are. What I'm saying is.. the machine didn't deliver enough quality. I was surprised back then at the lack of A-grade games - and looking at it now.. I'm still amazed that Sega didn't deliver many great games for it. Where was the commitment from them? ... SonicCD is what everyone goes on about - because it is actually good ( although.. some people prefer the MD versions )

I can safely imagine that Nintendo would have delivered at least a handful of brilliant games for their SNES-CD; if it had been released. Sega were taking the piss thinking people would love crappy FMV. I remember the USA advertising was all about FMV - and how "Cool" .. it was. It wasn't cool - and it wasn't good. Gamers soon realised that.

I bet there were many Mega Drive/Genesis owners - who bought the MCD out of sheer faith, and felt burnt as a result. Remember, 2D shooters, SonicCD, even Batman, weren't anything breathtaking. Yes.. Batman has the awesome driving sections ( but.. even those visuals had been seen in arcades in the late 80s in the likes of PowerDrift etc.. )

I think anyone with an ntsc SNES back then - would have quite rightly felt no need to own the MCD. The SNES still had more colours, great sound, and new chips[SuperFX] ... Even in 94 - RARE were wowing gamers with Donkey Kong Country. Some people don't like DKC much - but.. there is no doubt that it wowed more gamers than the MCD ever did. That fact alone is enough to prove that the MCD just didn't cut it.

These days I treasure 2D gaming more than ever. That's why I appreciate my small collection of 2D MCD games. The machine was never cutting-edge - and these days.. it's a nice retro curio. In fact, machines and games that weren't such a big thing back in the day, are often the ones retro fans get excited about now. Stuff like F-Zero, ContraIII, CastlevaniaIV, Pilotwings, Gunstar Heroes, Quackshot, etc... have been played to death. People are looking for things to get excited about, and a machine like the MCD gives them a new avenue to explore; even though it's not one paved with gold.

[Duddyroar]

I can safely imagine that Nintendo would have delivered at least a handful of brilliant games for their SNES-CD; if it had been released

Just like they did with the Virtual Boy, you mean?

I think that given the limitations of CD-ROM tech at the time, Nintendo would have faced the same struggles that Sega did. Like Scot Bayliss said in the Mega-CD feature (before we forget this is a Retro Gamer feedback thread!), the machine was essentially a solution in search of a problem.

However, I'd much rather have a Mega-CD than a 3DO! Ok, so it looked pretty at the time but if you honestly think that it had games that could rival the likes of Shining Force CD, Snatcher, Batman Returns, Final Fight CD, Keio Flying Squadron and Dennin Aleste in terms of playability then you're loopy, pure and simple. The only thing worth playing on the 3DO was Street Fighter II Turbo and even that was rendered practically unplayable if you were using the standard pad.

[Leon Retro]

Just like they did with the Virtual Boy, you mean?

I think that given the limitations of CD-ROM tech at the time, Nintendo would have faced the same struggles that Sega did. Like Scot Bayliss said in the Mega-CD feature (before we forget this is a Retro Gamer feedback thread!), the machine was essentially a solution in search of a problem.

However, I'd much rather have a Mega-CD than a 3DO! Ok, so it looked pretty at the time but if you honestly think that it had games that could rival the likes of Shining Force CD, Snatcher, Batman Returns, Final Fight CD, Keio Flying Squadron and Dennin Aleste in terms of playability then you're loopy, pure and simple. The only thing worth playing on the 3DO was Street Fighter II Turbo and even that was rendered practically unplayable if you were using the standard pad.

Nintendo would have done wonderous things. You have stunned me by trying to compare what Nintendo did with a freakshow machine like the VirtualBoy to what they could have done with a souped-up snes .

You should look to the snes to see what Nintendo could have done with a SNES-CD. I would have imagined that it would have had a bit more tech inside - to help produce better scaling, or maybe even a SuperFX 3 chip? .. I can imagine it would have enabled new impressive versions of F-Zero, Pilotwings, Mario Kart, and bigger rpgs. Remember the SNES was still impressive on its own. The amount of colours and sound abilities were enabling brilliant games even in 1995.

When it comes to the games you mention for the MegaCD, they highlight my whole point regarding the machine. None of those games were impressive on the surfact back in 92-94. People had seen sprite scaling, played Parodius, Super Aleste, and many other shooters. The only games that offered something more refreshing - were Shining Force CD & Snatcher. Good games, but.. enough to inspire the more discerning gamer to part with hundreds of pounds? .. I don't think so.

I'm not slating the good games. I own Final Fight CD, Keio's Flying Squadron, Aleste, SonicCD, Batman. They have stood the test of time; because they were old-school when they debuted. They deliver good old fashioned style gaming.

Back then, when the MD & SNES, had and still were impressing people, no sane person gamer can say that the MCD truely offered enough incentives for people to embrace it. No, the MD & especially.. the SNES, still made people happy. I bet many were curious and somewhat excited about the MCD, but.. after sampling its dubious delights, decided it didn't deliver the next-generation dream.

The MCD came at a strange time. Remember.. Sega went mad after the success of the MD. The 32X, talk of the Neptune, the botched Saturn birth etc... The MCD is part of that troubled time.

Despite the fact that a passionate gamer can salvage some gaming gems from the MCD wreckage, doesn't mean the machine was worthy. It deserved to sink. It's a sad fact, because I would have been happy if it had been a great system to own.

When it comes to the 3DO, it was a machine of its time. What it did back then was extremely impressive and truely cutting-edge. The best games for the system were stunning for 93-95. They were also engrossing and full of gameplay. Anyone who bought one, would have been happy and felt that they really had joined the next-generation club.

I can't play 3DO games anymore. The visuals are extremely dated now and everything feels clunky. Road Rash is still mildly playable, and it's easy to see why it was so sensational back in 94, but.. as with most first generation 3D console games, they are experiences that are best left as memories.

It just goes to prove what I've always said. If a 2D game is good - it will never die. 2D visuals will always look antiquated - but that doesn't mean they can't be beautiful and bewitching. The MCD would be nothing without its 2D gems. Even the PS1 is now a machine that fans of 2D look to for old-school run-n-gun, platforming, shooter games. Goes to prove, that once the big 3D games dies, their 2D brothers march on, making people smile for decades to come.

[samanosuke]

However, I'd much rather have a Mega-CD than a 3DO! Ok, so it looked pretty at the time but if you honestly think that it had games that could rival the likes of Shining Force CD, Snatcher, Batman Returns, Final Fight CD, Keio Flying Squadron and Dennin Aleste in terms of playability then you're loopy, pure and simple. The only thing worth playing on the 3DO was Street Fighter II Turbo and even that was rendered practically unplayable if you were using the standard pad.

There's no point saying this... Leon's wearing his Nintendo specs today

I get what he's saying; he was expecting the Earth to move when the Mega CD was released and it didn't. The bottom line is, aside from an added ASIC graphics chip and upgraded PCM sound, it was all standard Mega Drive hardware meaning it still had a ****ty palette and only 64 on-screen colours. Of course SNES games would still look better. To me, what the Mega CD did deliver - although in smaller quantities than I'd hoped - were games that simply would not have been possible on cartridge format due to their size. Yes, that includes the SNES. Games such as Lunar: The Silver Star, Snatcher (I have to embolden this so it shines through Leon's specs ), Dune, Jurassic Park, Popful Mail, Shadowrun... I could go on.

Leon Ahoy, yes I did own a SNES and yes I still do own a SNES and my point wasn't meant to be which console is better. My point is that the Mega CD did offer something new, at least to console gamers - PC and Amiga owners were already accustomed to huge games - and as the PC Engine CD was never released in Europe the Mega CD was quite unique in this aspect. If you looked at the Mega CD and were hoping for a Mario Kart killer or Pilotwings type game then of course you'd be disappointed, but if you actually gave it the time of day and played through Snatcher, Lunar ?t al you'd see what all the fuss is about. These types of game would not have been possible on the SNES or Megadrive.

[samanosuke]

When it comes to the 3DO, it was a machine of its time. What it did back then was extremely impressive and truely cutting-edge. The best games for the system were stunning for 93-95. They were also engrossing and full of gameplay. Anyone who bought one, would have been happy and felt that they really had joined the next-generation club.

I can't honestly comprehend your enthusiasm for the 3DO when in the same breath you show such disdain for the Mega CD. The games may have wowed the public at the time but let's face it - most of them were shat. No single 3DO title can hold a flame to the best the the Mega CD has to offer, poncy 3D effects or not.

[Duddyroar]

Nintendo would have done wonderous things. You have stunned me by trying to compare what Nintendo did with a freakshow machine like the VirtualBoy to what they could have done with a souped-up snes

Stunned you? Why, exactly? I merely used the VB as an example of Nintendo failing to produce decent software for one of its own products. It happened once and it could easily happened with the SNES-CD; it's merely an example of why it's probably unwise to have such blind faith in a company.

You should look to the snes to see what Nintendo could have done with a SNES-CD. I would have imagined that it would have had a bit more tech inside - to help produce better scaling, or maybe even a SuperFX 3 chip?

How do you know what Nintendo were planning to put inside the SNES-CD? Considering the core hardware already had sprite scaling and all that jazz built in, Nintendo might have merely used CD-ROM as a medium to grant more storage and redbook audio; Sega used the Mega-CD to get up to speed with the SNES, but other companies (like NEC) just used the CD to hold more information, rather than offer any advantage in terms of raw tech. Given the cost of graphics hardware at the time I would guess that Nintendo would have taken the easy route.

You're blindly assuming that some kind of additional graphics chips would be involved, but I would guess that given the incredible cost of the machine, Nintendo would probably have avoided throwing in too much cutting-edge gear, as it would drive the price up. As it happens Nintendo probably did the right thing by ditching the SNES CD (although as we know, breaking the deal with Sony would have a knock-on effect on the games industry); I don't think they would have been able to use the format in a more meaningful way than Sega did at that time.

You might also be interested to know that before the hardware was canned, Nintendo was in talks to convert 7th Guest and Night Trap to the system - hardly what I'd call AAA games. But I guess if they're on the SNES, they're already improved, right?

When it comes to the 3DO, it was a machine of its time. What it did back then was extremely impressive and truely cutting-edge. The best games for the system were stunning for 93-95. They were also engrossing and full of gameplay. Anyone who bought one, would have been happy and felt that they really had joined the next-generation club.

I can recall seeing 3DO games in motion and thinking it was the biggest joke ever, especially when you consider that around the same time Sega was making jaws drop with Virtua Racing in the arcades (a sure pointer to what was to come with the TRUE next generation of games machines). 3D on the 3DO was at time laughable, and the machine bombed even worse than the MCD did. It deserved to, as well; the MCD might have been a little ahead of its time but the 3DO was completely mistimed. If they'd have held out and released M2 alongside the PSX/Saturn then it might have been a different story.

Judging the success of the MCD depends on if you see it as a technological success or a critical success. It's true that it didn't really offer games that were technically any better than those seen on the MD or SNES, but it was still home to some amazing titles that weren't available on any other system.

[samanosuke]

It's true that it didn't really offer games that were technically any better than those seen on the MD or SNES, but it was still home to some amazing titles that weren't available on any other system.

I would argue otherwise. Some games did take advantage of the increased capacity, and I don't just mean FMV games.

[Team Andromeda]

Nintendo would have done wonderous things. You have stunned me by trying to compare what Nintendo did with a freakshow machine like the VirtualBoy to what they could have done with a souped-up snes

What liked they did for the N64 DD drive ?

You can't compare it to the 3DO. The 3DO was truely mind-blowing back in late 93, through to 95. When I first saw Crash & Burn at a computer show - it made the MD, SNES, MCD, everything on the market.. look old hat.

Why not , both high price , and both not used to their fullest . Mega CD is 91 tech , and for the time a big step up in performance .

it made the MD, SNES, MCD, everything on the market.. look old hat.

Playing Batman Returns on Import in the spring of 1992 made every other console , including the Neo Geo look old hat . The Mega CD was so high tech it even made it on Tomorrow's World

SonicCD is what everyone goes on about

No Sonic CD is what people like you go on about . Ones that never botherd much with the system , or went by what they read in the likes of EDGE

I'm don't like making lists anymore , but imo Popfulmail , Switch , Batman Returns , Lunar , Eternal Blue, Third World War , Eternal Champions , Final Fight, Snatcher , Rise of the Dragon, Robo Aleste are AAA games

Sega were taking the piss thinking people would love crappy FMV.

They were plenty of FMV games on the PC, plenty onthe 3DO . And its not the case that all FMV games were poor , far from it . I loved the TATIO Wolf Team games , and maybe on my own , but really rated Dracula Unleased and Prize Fighter .

Remember, 2D shooters, SonicCD, even Batman, weren't anything breathtaking.

??.

The SNES still had more colours, great sound, and new chips[

The Neo Geo featured more colours on screen and had better sound , do you rate the Neo Geo above the Mighy Snes ?.
The Master System pissed onthe NES for graphics , but I bet you'll say the NES is the better machine

but.. there is no doubt that it wowed more gamers than the MCD ever did.

Yeah the bias Snes fans , If want to talk graphics , I'll argue that Thunder Force IV, Red Zone fatured more impressive graphics , never mind Batman & Robin . When you owned a Mega Drive , I think some could have said , there's no need to own any other machine , because the MD at a AA or AAA title in very genre , unlike the Snes which was piss poor for shooters, scrolling beat them up's , and sports games