Sudeki

[SuperBrother]

Climax have a fair few Japanese staff (some ex Square).

Who? The cleaner and tea-lady?

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

[Brats]

No, it's a YTS trainee and some guy who was on a week's work experience in the post room.

[Ady]

I don't think it is, that's just been the assumption of some gamers. I think it's supposed to a marriage of Western and Japanese styles. Climax have a fair few Japanese staff (some ex Square). Of course, whether the marriage will be a happy one remains to be seen.

I dunno... it just seems all so calculated to me.

These guys are making a console style RPG - something that's traditionally the domain of the Japanese. This UK team also gives its game a meaningless name that sounds like a Japanese word.

As such, it comes across as a desperate attempt to make inroads into the CRPG market by pretense (though if they can truly flip the moribund CRPG I will be happy).

All in all though, it has to be said that if Sudeki wasn't a video game, it would be Tim Westwood.

[Brats]

But what is a 'console style RPG'? If Western developers make an RPG one way, they're copying the Japanese. If they do it another way, they are just porting over 'Computer RPG's'.

Console RPGs have been mostly Japanese because up until this generation, nearly all Western RPG developers focused on the PC as their main platform. Let's not forget the many of the main things that make up all RPGs (including Japanese) were originally developed in the West anyway.

There's no reason why someone shouldn't take a good idea from another region and develop it. This is often how great entertainment is made (Sergio Leone took the American Western, put an Italian slant on it and the Spaghetti Western was born).

I'm not saying Sudeki is going to be any good, but there's no reason why British developers shouldn't expand on Japanese ideas or vice versa.

[SuperBrother]

I'm not saying Sudeki is going to be any good, but there's no reason why British developers shouldn't expand on Japanese ideas or vice versa.

If done with style, flair and originality then no problem.
Unfortunately these vital elements are sorely lacking in most Western developed games (across all genres, not just RPG's) so rather than expanding on Japanese ideas the games come across as being at best a homage or at worst a cynical cash in.
Sure, the foundations of RPG games were founded in the West but the Japanese have taken the genre, lovingly polished and improved it until they are producing absolutely stunning gems which leave the rest of the world playing catch up. I look at the Western stuff and there is no love there man.

[Brats]

We'll have to agree to disagree there. This generation the West have come up time and time again with my favourite gaming moments .

[jassi singh]

Managed to play the demo this afternoon and found that the fighting mechanics are cool. But then again, i hate the random and turn based battles of Final Fantasy, but the story always makes it worth pursuing.
So anyway, seeing a new style of combat in a RPG is always a plus imo.

However, the voicework is just cringe worthy in Sudeki :S When i got to the boss in this demo, one of the most awful lines i have ever heard, made its way through the speakers (cant remember exactly but it was still crap )

"taste the dragons fury, only second to that of Mo the cat!"


Im definately sure if that was said in japanese it would of been way cooler, 8) or maybe not. :P

I really think, like most of the opinions on this thread that Climax could have based the game around a western style story\back ground instead of going for a more japanese vibe...its just that it feels very odd. At the very least they could of used japanese voice actors and had subtitles, instead of using Julia Swahahahahalalalalaala for example (definatly sure it was her).

Im not compleatly slagging this game off, as it is only a demo, but i doubt they will change the voices :P Unless the Japan release has Japanese subtitles\voice work ;D

[JRMacumber]

If done with style, flair and originality then no problem.
Unfortunately these vital elements are sorely lacking in most Western developed games (across all genres, not just RPG's)

* snorts *

Okay. I understand you now. Toodles.

[SuperBrother]

* snorts *

Okay. I understand you now. Toodles.

Well there's no need to get personal man, if you disagree with me fair enough, it just means you're wrong

[evilmatt]

Every RPG that Bioware have released >>>> any other RPG you can name, east or west, tbh

[JRMacumber]

Well there's no need to get personal man, if you disagree with me fair enough, it just means you're wrong

Nothing personal about it, bro. I just wish you'd said that early on so I could have started ignoring you then. Would have saved us both time.

[Concept]

If done with style, flair and originality then no problem.
Unfortunately these vital elements are sorely lacking in most Western developed games (across all genres, not just RPG's) so rather than expanding on Japanese ideas the games come across as being at best a homage or at worst a cynical cash in.

Do you not think that's tainting half of the development world with the same brush?

The Sands of Time, Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, Grand Theft Auto III, Galleon, Broken Sword III, Eternal Darkness, Red Ded Revolver etc. Do they all lack imaginative characterisation?

In my opinion, the standard, design and imagination within Western design has improved remarkably on the console front in the last four years.

[SuperBrother]

Fair point Concept, the cream of the crop there in terms of design, still nowhere near the work of Sq.Enix, Capcom or Konami though and of course there has to be a good game behind the design which XIII, Galleon and arguably Broken Sword 3 clearly aren't.

Putting it simply which is the better and more memorable character Solid Snake or Sam Fisher? Dante or Prince of Persia? Any of the roster of FFX or any of the abominations from Sudeki? Mario or Crash Bandicoot?

I mainly play RPG's, they are my genre, a good RPG game stands or falls on it's design as you have to nuture, develop and learn about these guys and their world for 80 hours or so. This being the case you expect the avatars and locations to be interesting, pleasing on the eye and in the case of fantasy RPG's "fantastic", this is where we fail and why originality is of utmost importance to me.

I may be making sweeping generalisations but I like them, they make things simpler, plus the fact kanji gives me a semi - take from that what you will.

[martTM]

Fair point Concept, the cream of the crop there in terms of design, still nowhere near the work of Sq.Enix, Capcom or Konami though and of course there has to be a good game behind the design which XIII, Galleon and arguably Broken Sword 3 clearly aren't.

Putting it simply which is the better and more memorable character Solid Snake or Sam Fisher? Dante or Prince of Persia? Any of the roster of FFX or any of the abominations from Sudeki? Mario or Crash Bandicoot?

I mainly play RPG's, they are my genre, a good RPG game stands or falls on it's design as you have to nuture, develop and learn about these guys and their world for 80 hours or so. This being the case you expect the avatars and locations to be interesting, pleasing on the eye and in the case of fantasy RPG's "fantastic", this is where we fail and why originality is of utmost importance to me.

I may be making sweeping generalisations but I like them, they make things simpler, plus the fact kanji gives me a semi - take from that what you will.

You're still generalising, and I reckon that means you're missing the point somewhat. A well-designed character is memorable, no matter where it comes from - as such, your comparisons between Dante and the Prince (both of whom I feel are memorable, for different reasons) or Solid Snake and Sam Fisher aren't really valid. It's just as much about the quality of the game underneath that makes them memorable, rather than just the design - if, for example, I'd only experienced Devil May Cry 2, I doubt I'd feel the same way about Dante because... well, it wasn't much cop.

However, I do agree that in certain cases, design is a big feature - particularly in RPGs. In that respect, Sudeki falls down because against something like FFX-2, Kingdom Hearts or Tales Of Symphonia, the character design just feels rather generic and bland. The characters lack, well, character - hardly a good thing when you're meant to grow to feel part of their world.

[Brats]

the cream of the crop there in terms of design, still nowhere near the work of Sq.Enix, Capcom or Konami though

The cream of the crop would be something like Grim Fandango or Day of the Tentacle which have some of the greatest character design seen in a video game. Ever. From any region.

Personally, I prefer Sam Fisher to Solid Snake. The formers slightly older character works well within the stories and makes him a slightly more interesting character, especially with the moral dilemnas he faces in the sequel.

Solid Snake is just a rip off of Snake Pliskin with a mullet. If he were a real actor, he'd be Chuck Norris .