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Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard

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    Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard

    Oh sweet joy, an other thread for myself only!
    I was really looking forward to this game, knowing it wouldn't have been a big surprise like the first, but I was waiting for it nonetheless.
    When you first snap the cart into the DS a very simple introduction will tell you how the city of Lagaard was born, about the great flood, the floating castle and the giant Yggdrasil tree. This is all narrated through static text and simple drawings and once it's over you're greeted by an SD model of the blond female gunner happily walking, gun in hand, in front of the city from which the game takes its subtitle.

    Choosing New Game will prompt the game to ask if you had, per any chance, visited Etria and will ask you to digit a password to prove it. The password is of course provided by the previous game and...why in the era of wired or wireless networking do I have to input a 30+ character long password? Even Golden Sun gave the possibility to exchange info via link cable! Not to mention that beside your guild's name and a single item testifying that you beat the previous game, it appears that no other data is transferred. No names for your characters, no equipment, no items, no money...there's a slightly change in dialogues if you chose to bring your previous data (like "oooh, you're the famous guild Clan Wolf"), but right now it stops there.

    BTW, as with the first EO, the first step is to register your party. Every class is available from the start with the exception of the Beast class (but I don't know if having Hexers and Ronins from the start is influenced by the previous savegame...I suspect not as the two classes are fully described in the instruction booklet with the Beast class is not), so I registered one character from every class and set off for the labyrinth with a Landerwhatever, a Protector, a Gunner, a Medic and a WarMagus. Later I switched the WarMagus for an Alchemist and then an Hexer, but I'm still in the learning phase.

    Existing classes haven't changed much except for the Ronin that now doesn't need to change his/her stances during combat to use special attacks. Other classes had some of their skills renamed but they still have the same effect as before.

    The new classes are the Warmagus, the Gunner and the Beast, which is locked at the beginning.
    The Gunner in combat resembled the Survivalist, with low vitality and quick, long range actions; gunners cannot gather as many items as Survivalists but gain a full variety of elemental and healer shots as well as keeping the ability to strike at multiple targets relatively early on; they are mostly a combat class, lacking strong support capabilities.

    Warmagi are strange. At first I thought they would mix swords with elemental magic; instead they mix swords, curses and healing magic. They aren't particularly strong but they have interesting party healing abilities but don't go as far as having resurrection or Salve III like the Medics, nor their curses are strong or interesting as Hexers. I found out that Warmagi can act as Medic and a Hexer together during the first Strati (levels of the labyrinth), but probably they'll lose effectiveness as the game proceeds as they don't specialize in any of their three fields.

    The very first impression is that EOII tries to emulate its predecessor, as the first task is to draw a map of the first Stratum of the labyrinth, with occasional pop-ups from Lagaard guards giving you hints.
    It also felt like that skills consume less TPs per use and some classes have access to HP-regenerating abilities very early. However, I let the game fool me and so I got mauled three times in the first stratum for being excessively careless: not healing when a character is in the red zone, not distributing even the first three skills point before reaching level 2 and so on or venturing too far in the labyrinth without TPs, healing items or warp wires...probably it's just an impression, but Laagard prices are higher than Etria and money is harder to come by, but probably it's because I haven't taken any skills that allow to gather materials.

    The game has undergone subtle little changes that make life easier: now in the shop you are able to see how an item will affect a character in your party and directly equip it, there's a quicksave option (yay!), the inn can store items you collected into the labyrinth (useful for those multiple item fetching quests), the map maker has now more icons (three different types of terrain, chop/take/mine hotspots have their respective icons with different colors and there are arrows for secret passages.
    The status screen also shows the prerequisites for each skill...not knowing what would have unlocked a certain skill had its charm, but this hardly makes the game easier, with a single skill point per level some were completely wasted on almost useless skills, so I'd say it's a welcome addition.

    Graphics are mostly the same (some more detail here and there, but it's nothing too noteworthy), just like music, which sounds like a rearrange of the previous soundtrack; sound effects are exactly the same.

    And now on to fight the first FOE...on the first labyrinth stratum.

    #2
    And so the first FOE...well, it seems to have just one single attack, the problem is that the attack is able to do roughly 100 HP damage and all my characters are around 60 at max. I was able to wear it down to half of its HPs, but it still managed to kill the entire party.

    It does not move and you're free to circle it and go to the second Stratum, however the second Stratum can be easily described as a FOE nest, they move but can be easily avoided, but they are still a lot and dangerous (not to mention that getting killed by a purple deer isn't exactly morale-inspiring).

    Comment


      #3
      I think I've found my party: Ronin, Protector, Medic, Gunner and Survivalist, right now all of them are at level 15.
      Logic goes that damage is done by the Ronin and the Gunner, Protector provokes strong enemies to hit her and gives the whole party extra physical and elemental defense, Medic revives and cures party, Survivalist enables map abilities (material gathering, FOE spotting and so on) and is wild card during battles, item usage or extra damage. Elemental damage can be done by Ronin and Gunner on single or all enemies, plus the Gunner can use the medishot ability to cure status ailments on the whole party in a single turn; it's possible to get Medic's Salve III (full heal on all party members) relatively early, so I'm basically able to heal the party in one turn and dish out some good damage while concentrating damage on one of my characters - tactic works, more or less (Provoke isn't 100% effective) and against strong FOEs (like 3rd Stratum's Stalker) I still have hard time...oh, FOEs: they don't give any exp.
      I don't like this one bit, it's true that the first EO featured some FOEs that gave you less exp than normal enemies, but at least they gave you items and exp, not just items. Now, there's only the thrill of fighting them, and well, I tend to skip as many FOEs battle I can now, especially that I'm struck on the third Stratum, unable to kill to Stalkers blocking the path...those things can kill everyone in the party (except the Protector) in one hit and their high defense nullifies most attacks. So I'm wandering the first part of the third Stratum trying to gain enough levels and Force Points at least give some initial damage to the best...Protector's able to nullify all damage to the party for one turn, while the Ronin is able to strike all enemies for a one-hit kill; the Gunner is able to damage and stun enemies, the Medic give a full recovery to the whole party and Survivalist increases speed and evasion rate for the whole party.

      I doubt that the Stalker will miss due to the Survivalist's special action or will be killed by the Ronin's Issen Strike, but it's worth a shot and at least I will last one more turn thanks to the Protector.

      And I've also discovered (=read the manual) that you can strafe by using the dorsal buttons; maybe it doesn't sound like the biggest news in the universe but at least it makes easier to search for secret passages along walls, rather than moving, turning toward the wall, turning toward the tile you want to move and then redo the whole process.

      Even with the huge 3rd Stratum roadblock, I'm enjoying EOII...or I wouldn't be writing this.

      Comment


        #4
        Thread bump, second Stratum is now open.

        Rather than stopping at the 3rd level of the 1st Stratum to defeat the dreaded FOE, I spent one skill point from Chiaki's repertoire to use Haltshot and stop FOE movements long enough to outrun them.
        And so, after visiting levels 4 and 5, completing several quests including staying for three days straight in the 4th level to slay monsters, meeting flying FOEs (who can pass on low walls that you can, obviously, not pass), discovering where the first boss lurked and got to level 24 with all party members, I decided to take on to the Stalker and defeated it (yai!) and then defeated the first boss, which gave a load of experience points and let most of my adventurers to pass to level 25 and go to the second Stratum, which, in all the DS' pixellated graphic glory, looked fabolous, but probably it's just because I became tired of the first Stratum's green trees (now,

        second Stratum trees are red as it's autumn,

        I'll grow tired of them too but right now I'm more pleased with the "going up" progression of EOII that the "let's go and see what the Dwarves dig out" of the first EO).

        The three days long quest made me appreciate the quicksave option, a real godsend in these lengthy quests; also unlocked the Beast class and give it a quick test; the avatars for the Beasts are a brown bear, a giant panda, a white sabertooth tiger and a black wolf: I'd have gone with the wolf (with the guild named Clan Wolf and all), but since all guild members are young-looking girls, I went for the brown bear and named him Pedobear...Beasts even have the Saliva special attack, it seemed more appropriate and fun, even if I'm the only one understanding why it's fun (hopefully - for you).

        It's a good thing that the last class is unlocked relatively early in the game, having it near the half of the game like the Ronin and Hexer in EO greatly reduced their effectiveness, they were too weak compared to other warriors: not that Beasts do not start at level one, but at least they have to catch up on 20-something characters on the first Strati rather than 50-something characters on the last Strati.

        Party is working well (Ronin, Protector, Medic, Gunner, Survivalist), though the FOEs on the second Stratum made me want to have an Alchemist in the party,

        as these things are only vulnerable to ice attacks

        and Motoko (the Ronin with

        ice-based katana slashes

        ) eats up all of her TPs even before they get down to half their energy...other attacks do around 5 points each! I always end up in running away as I simply cannot withstand the FOE attacks after a while.
        Unfortunately adding an Alchemist would require to train her from almost scratch (I leveled her up to 3 before switching to Gunner) and won't fit well in the party, as the Gunner's ability to stop FOEs and cure status ailments on all party in one shot will be sorely missed...but since I'm now focusing on upgrading TP growth on most characters, having enough special attacks to bring down that FOE won't be a real problem.

        And the exploration of the second Yggdrasil tree continues.
        Last edited by briareos_kerensky; 28-06-2008, 09:07.

        Comment


          #5
          Thread bump once again to celebrate the opening of the third Stratum.

          Graphically, I'm not please by this Stratum. OK, probably because we're entering the clich?ed territory with

          snow-filled

          areas, but at least the sound of you party walking around is good...not that's groundbreaking, though.

          The 2nd Stratum boss wasn't so hard and the first enemies of the 3rd Stratum aren't that hard (except for

          Snowmen and their tendency to call for reinforcements

          ), there are some pretty nasty flying FOEs but nothing too hard...and I still need to understand why ice-based attacks do more damage than fire-based attacks.

          Party's as before, Ronin/Protector/Medic/Gunner/Survivalist, and yes, it's working pretty well. While the Ronin and the Medic don't need too many levels to be fully effective, the Protector and the Gunner do.

          The Protector is mainly used as bait for powerful attacks, with maximized Shields, Provoke and En Garde, so that if she's able to draw enemy's attention, attack will either land on the character with the highest defense and probably completely nullified. AllGuard, a barrier that protects the entire party from all elemental attacks is only partially useful right now as not many enemies use group elemental attacks.

          After leveling the Gunner's Fireshot a bit I went to level up Medishot, Haltshot, Wildshot (attack on the whole enemy party) and Ricochet (random multiple attacks), plus TP Up. The Gunner elemental damage is pretty low (maybe it's due to the low level of Fireshot), but like the Survivalist is turning out to be a great support for the whole party.

          Instead of exploring the Third Stratum I'm going around the last floors of the second trying to have quests done...right now I have to find a birthday present for the innkeeper's daughter...would you prefer a treasure, a bird, some berries or some medical specimen? (in order: barkeeper suggestion, Sitoth's daughter suggestion, Guildmaster suggestion and Doctor's assistance suggestion....guess I'll go for the bird).

          And off to locate a Blood Rock.

          Comment


            #6
            New update, new Stratum reached!

            It was nice feeling the cold breeze of the third Stratum but after getting mauled multiple times by its boss and therefore having spent hours (both in-game and real life) leveling up, seeing a different landscape is nice.

            It's not nice when the second room of the first floor of the fourth Stratum (of the second Etrian Odyssey) is filled with FOEs that can kill your whole party with a single attack, when the previous boss at least gave you a chance. However, this was after saving at the inn, so no harm done, onward with the fourth Stratum exploration by running away from monsters.

            Got a quest at the bar where the committent told her pet's name over and over, which is lost in the Labyrinth....we I've got to see the pet "call the pet over with his name!"
            Oooooh f******ck...but I remembered it at last.
            And, no, no microphone use or anything, the game prompts you with a yes/no dialog box.

            What I don't like about EOII is that many monsters are taken from the first Odyssey can gave a quick restyling, some are more powerful now and met on different Strati, but having a completely new bestiary would have been better, at least it was one more reason to start everything over...I still can't believe that all you get from completing EO is a single item.

            What I like is that the Labyrinth feels more "alive". Although there are many things in common with the previous game with a new graphic (paths that force you along them, teleports and so on), the number and type of quests, the fact that you met guards and other NPCs with various dialogs at hand, more traps and secret passages that can be crossed only with a certain class, number of explorers or by solo adventurers gives more variety in exploring the Yggdrasil tree, which is good, as it gives exactly what EO veterans want.

            Sometime I whine that many games in same series and/or genre don't offer nothing new despite new technologies or ideas found in other games, but being EOII so structurally simple, adding anything else would have ruined the game.
            Story is kept to a minimum and roughly follows the events narrated in Etrian Odyssey, there are new characters and replaced ones (the bartender, the innkeeper and so on) feel more well-rounded, with extra lines and mor interaction due to the quests or even even what you have done or what's in your inventory.

            FOEs don't give experience, I've already written that, but standard enemies and bosses give more and this balances out everything, especially with the added value of items FOEs drop.

            Apparently it's also easier to stockpile on money without using a dedicated harvesting party and the new class balances works great, with more variety for the party.
            Just tried a Lands/War Magus/Dark Hunter/Gunner/Medic which isn't bad as rather than cutting enemies open with ease can alter their status to easily pick away their health...I'll stick with my Ronin/Protector/Medic/Gunner/Survivalist team, but it made me reconsider the role of the Dark Hunter.

            Onward toward the floating castle.

            Comment


              #7
              Bloody hell. They're some long posts. Almost as long as the game itself.

              Am meaning to get this actually. Loved the first one but I have to finish FFTA2 first.

              Comment


                #8
                Want a shorter post?
                Well, upon completion of a quest, the blacksmith's daughter told me (as in "my party") that his father thinks that only me (us/them/someone in my party) is fit to be his husband and she agrees.
                Funny how my party (well, my whole Guild, except for a Beast) is composed by girls.
                If she was speaking about me (as in "me playing the role of the guildmaster"), no thanks, I'm aiming for the Duke's daughter (

                Gradiel...which is suspiciously similar to Princess Crown's Gradriel both in name and looks

                ), if it's about someone in the party, Beast aside, I'm pressing for this, total item discount.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hurray for me and the fifth Stratum.

                  Graphically wise the fourth Stratum was good and the 19th floor was especially amazing, but the beginning of the fifth Stratum is really impressive, although the rest of the level is almost monotone; at least it's bright and it's in complete contrast with the somewhat desaturated color themes of the other Strata.

                  Everyone in town is talking about me and I've got the blacksmith and the innkeeper daughters fall for my female-only party.

                  Also reaching level 70 with all my usual party members, it will be soon time to retire and bring out new recruits with improved stats to take on the final boss.

                  Got three final (or so I think) items in the game, two armors and a katana, all of them in the realm of 250K + money, but since there will be an hidden Stratum with even more quests, I think I'll be able to get my hands on something even powerful.

                  Even this journey is coming to an end, and with Izuna 2 hopefully shipping tomorrow there couldn't have been a better timing for this...however I know I'll pick up this game even after finishing it and exploring the last Stratum, it happened with Etrian Odyssey too.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Aaaand...no, game not completed yet.

                    Exploration hit a huge slowdown on floor 23,

                    it has no random encounters but it's full of aggressive FOEs (they follow you until you enter a door or engage them in combat and will join any nearby fight) which are hard as hell to take down.



                    My party is a really "dumb" party, focused on basic elemental and physical damage and all my characters are above level 65...it's no good when the max level is 70 and you have troubles so far from the end (well, relatively far).

                    So, Aina and B.B. (Protector and Survivalist) were taken out of the party both at level 67 and welcome Mia and Maya, a Dark Hunter and Hexer. I used them a bit before settling for my previous party and so they were at level 6 and 2 respectively but after a short stay on the 20th floor they're nearing level 20. They're the weak links of the party, but this should help me in levelling the to of them to an acceptable level (50+) while maxing out other members and retire them for more powerful characters...not end the first end is nowhere in sight, so Izuna (and any other game, in fact) will have to wait a while.

                    The inclusion of an Hexer and a Dark Hunter means that the Gunner will get 10 skills point to redistribute on...something (stats or Riskfire probably) as the DH will take care of binding enemies and the Hexer will help deliver massive damage on enemies by weakening their physical and elemental defenses...or so I hope.

                    Probably even the Salamox on the 8th floor would be a feasible prey.



                    Just like the first EO the last Stratum contains tidbits of story...which I don't really care about, especially when I know why the EO world is in such state after completing the first game. I

                    mean, who really cares if the current civilization is the result of a catastrophic disaster in the 20th century, current timeline of this world (meaning "our" as in "this very planet") and the Heavenly Keep/floating castle hosts something willing to modify all mankind into eternal machines?

                    In a dungeon crawler all I care is about enemies to fight.

                    And my suspicions have been confirmed: the armored figure in the Explorers Guild is a girl. Maybe the long blond hairs coming out from the helm where enough of a proof, but now the bartender confirmed this. And that makes an other female willing to dine with someone in my all-girl party.

                    Oh the happiness!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It's nice to see that developers reworked how retiring adventurers works.

                      Chiaki, Shion and Motoko (Gunner, Medic and Ronin) hit level 70, so I retired them and replaced them with a substitute with some bonuses. Unlike the first game, retiring at level 70 makes the new character start at level 30 (instead of level 1) with +4 points on each stat and 40 skill points to distribute (30 for level, 3 basic points and 7 bonus points).
                      With Mia and Maya (Dark Hunter and Hexer) at level 31 and 32, so all members have, roughly, the same experience level; the party will forget for a while the highest Strata and will concentrate on lower floors hidden areas which I left behind anticipating the moment. Then a couple of boss rushes, and I'll be ready to take on the fifth Stratum.

                      The more I use Hexers the more I ask myself how I could have lived without them, Frialty and Dampen reduce physic and elemental resistance and even at low levels they're quite effective. Unfortunately Hexers are slow and I'm thinking on upgrading Maya's AGI to have faster spells.

                      Dark Hunters, on the other side, are a mixed bag. They are fast, even with their special moves and have a good defense; not as good as Protectors but higher than Ronins. They aren't particularly strong and binds dont' work bind as much as they should, but probably because I was using a level 20 character on 4th Stratum monsters...we'll see.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Good luck bud

                        Comment


                          #13
                          No, game's no finished yet.
                          I've changed the party! Yet again, yes. Well, more or less.
                          I've taken out Chiaki, the Gunner, out and put back in the front line Aina, my starting Protector, and reworked Mia, the Dark Hunter, a bit.
                          After realizing that even maxed out binds don't work well on bosses (= don't work at all) except for the force skill I've tried out the bait/magibait combo.
                          However, this needed some work.
                          Aina and B.B. (Survivalist) were near level 70. A short tour-de-force with Motoko (Ronin) and they were level 70, ready for retiring.
                          Aina became Aina the enhaced Protector, with Front Guard and all Elemental guards (plus Smite and HP/TP improvements).
                          B.B. became Mia the enhaced Dark Hunter, with Bait, Magibait and stat improvements.
                          Mia the level 47 Dark Hunter became B.B. the level 20-something Survivalist with gathering skills.
                          And so the party Ronin/Protector/Dark Hunter/Medic/Hexer took on the labyrinth and walked over all four bosses with ease.
                          The Ronin dishes out damage as usual, the Protector uses its guards and the Dark Hunter Bait/Magibait, to reflect damage on the enemy after they attack (and if the Dark Hunter Survives), the Medic cures and the Hexer allocates huge damage values with Revenge...I'm quite pleased with this party especially when I was nearly able to take on the FOEs on the fifth stratum...however they attack in mass and surviving such massed attacks it's not easy...but seeing a lvl 50 party being able to do waht a lvl 70 party wasn't able to accomplish is good. A bit more levelling and I'll be ready to take on floor 23.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Party retirement, 50th or so installment.

                            No, wait, game completed!

                            I mean, I finished the first 25 floors and already got missions for the Stratum above.

                            Final battle was a bit anti-climatic;

                            the last boss, called the Overlord is fought over a two-part battle that basically reveals what you already knew (from either the first EO or by reading the story bits in this game): scientisc who turned his body into machine to continue his study on how to evolve the human race. But frankly, as with the first game, who cares?


                            BTW, final battle: anti-climatic, yes.

                            The Overlord first form is incredibly easy even if it likes to spawn group-based curses. The second form hits a bit harder with both physical and elemental attacks (plus all previous attacks), you don't know what it's coming so the only defense is to use arty-healing items and endure the pain.

                            And give it some more with the hexer's revenge ability...almost 900 damage points with each attack at level 60, unretired. Hexers rock.


                            Sixth Stratum: nice. Reminds me of the first EO Stratum, the blue sky, the green grass and the multicolored flowers...and enemies called "Bloodman" in their crimson armor, a blatant recolor of the 23rd/25th floor's Armormen, which, in turn are a recolor and a subtle modification of 5th Stratum's Deathmen, a FOE.
                            Oh well, it's good to see that you have to fill a cup with enemy's blood to complete the first 6th Stratum quest and, in fact, advance in the Stratum itself.



                            However, a 5th Stratum FOE nailed me as the Hexer was at full HP and wasn't able to cast revenge.

                            But the exploration continues.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Really interested in this now that FFA2 is coming to a close - would you recommend picking up the first game first? Is there some bonus for finishing the first game that you can take into Etrian 2? Or would it just be best to sack the first game off?

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