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    Ar Tonelico Qoga

    "Can you strip? I want to do some high-level programming"
    Oh, Ar Tonelico's innuendo, how much I missed you.

    Third installment in Gust's "let's sing to save the world" series, Ar Tonelico takes a few steps away from the previous chapters, though their formula is still the same.

    The story again revolves around one main protagonist, Aoto and two Reyvateils, Saki and Finnel. Following tradition the former has light hairs and the latter dark hairs and wears asian-looking clothes. And of course both have some dark mysterious secret and a whole lot of problems that must be unraveled to bring the game to its end.

    Gust made a few changes to the battle system.
    First, they ditched turn-based battles for a Tales'inspired real time combat.
    Square attacks, X activates song magic, triangle brings up the in-battle menu and circle performs a defensive move when enemies are threatening the active Reyvateil; blocking is performed by standing still.

    Players will control the party leader (which can be changed via the in-battle menu) but it's not possible to assign tactics to other party members, and will limit to attack the nearest enemy, though they are smart enough to split when there's more than one.
    The active Reyvateil will start to build up her song magic as soon as the battle begins and unlike previous games, there's only one attack song (at least, up to where I am). The longer the song magic is charged, the more destructive it will be.
    The bottom part of the screen is taken up by a large harmonics gauge and if attacks are timed with the red spikes, the Reyvateil will eventually be able to perform a purge. Purges are performed by pressing one of the shoulder buttons and shaking the controller; if a Hyuma (more of that later) is assigned to the pressed shoulder button, the song magic will also acquire a secondary effect, like attack up, defense up, status recovery and so on.
    Saki and Finnel are able to perform up to four purges in a battle, depending how deep you went into their Cosmosphere. By performing a purge, their avatar will change shape and the Reyvateil will...remove clothes.

    Differencies between Saki and Finnel aren't merely esthetic but also functional. Saki deploys her magic in circular area (her avatar is Bob-Omb like thing) with status recovers, while Finnel fires in a straight line with status changes for enemies. Her avatar? Momoko, a red-haired fox girl in underwear, red tie, knee-high socks and a babidoll. With a bunny head on a stick. And weld mask, a Faust-like paper bag or a diving helmet depending on the purge level. Why can't Momoko be the main heroine?

    The forementioned Cosmosphere can be described as the Reyvateil's psyche. Players must earn DPs (Dive Points) through battles to spend while dving and try to bring the chosen Reyvateil to a Paradigm Shift, which will unlock a deeper Cosmosphere level and stronger song magic effects.
    Secondary effects are bestowed by Hyumas, small sprites found in the Cosmosphere.
    As with the other games, Cosmosphere seem to be the best-written part of the game and they feel more closely related to the story of the game, rather than a way to know "your" Reyvateil more.
    Unfortunately the game doesn't spend too much time explaining the world's setting, leaving it to brief and often cryptic dialogues spread throughout the game.

    This time around the two Reyvateils

    have multiple persona inside them and they will manifest to the outside world and will modify the song magic avatar. Saki has a female fencher and a well endowed blond girl inside her, while Finnel a cold blooded assassin (this persona works for the enemy, even) and a nurse.
    Right now not all personas have seen battle, but they change avatar and attack method. For example Finnel's nurse has a mecha armed with missiles attacking in a circular area.
    These multiple persona once again influence the Reyvateil's Cosmosphere and play an active part in the game's story,

    so hopefully the story will be a bit more complex the the first two games.

    So far the game has been pretty standard, it's not breaking any mold. There have been a couple of seriously funny WTF moments and the script feels somewhat more lighthearted than the first two games and while visual do feature stripping girls and all female characters look good, the innuendo isn't as heavy as the first game, which is something I appreciate.

    Luckily enough Gust revised synthetis mechanics and while buying certain items is only possible in certain shops, there's no longer the need to go to a specific place to craft an item; instead everything's done at inns or save points; unfortunately Ar Tonelico 1's way to handle missing materials has been ditched too: when a certain item required an object not in the player's possesion but that could have been crafted, the game woould automatically carry out the synthesis.

    The new battle system is good, though the absence of tactics and the need to bring up the battle menu to use items (one at a time) is annoying.
    Also, the game first saves progression data and then system data. Every. Single Time. Loading the system data requires a confirmation, too. Just...why?

    Dungeons are in 3D, with a fixed camera. Views aren't bad but there are a couple of instances that terrain features completely obscure the payer.
    Environments are very poor and repetivitve. In the first dungeon texture seams are clearly visible and while the quality does improve a bit, dungeons aren't exactly easy on the eye.
    Cities are portrayed in 2D and while more interesting to see, sometimes shadows and polygocal models look a bit off.
    Character portraits also sport few compression artifacts, while movies are essentially perfect. Portrait artifcats aren't particularly heavy but they aren't as sharp as other games, which is a shame.
    Party members' 3D models are nice and beside Aoto's jump animations are good. Saki and Finnel, when fully dressed have a lot of meshes compenetrations, which greatly reduces the graphical impact of the game.
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    #2
    Comes out this week in the UK. Looking forward to it, this gen has been pretty lacking in JRPGs.

    Only annoyance is that the stripping mechanics mean that I won't have this game turned on when anyone else is around.

    Comment


      #3
      Purge movies can be disabled from the options menu, but, yeah, having a girl in underwear

      with a huge cat head mask

      on the monitor might not be the best thing around your partner.



      Happens in Saki's Cosmosphere, BTW.

      Comment


        #4
        I'm hoping this game at least makes the choice of which girl to pick tougher.

        Having you pick between Luca and Cloche right after Luca becomes incredibly unlikable was a bit of a poor design choice in AT2.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by abigsmurf View Post
          I'm hoping this game at least makes the choice of which girl to pick tougher.
          Just went through that.
          Though,

          it's not probably the only turning point as the party wasn't split.
          However, up to this choice, Saki's been developed more than Finnel and the choice almost came natural.
          I'll skip on explaining why even with the spoiler tag, but: both characters are likeable (let's just say that there's no Luca here), one is developed more than the other.



          Originally posted by abigsmurf View Post
          Having you pick between Luca and Cloche right after Luca becomes incredibly unlikable was a bit of a poor design choice in AT2.
          Nonetheless I went on with her :P

          BTW, just discovered

          Saki's third persona, a catgirl wrapped up in bandages and a nun attire. Best purge movie so far.

          Last edited by briareos_kerensky; 27-03-2011, 20:50. Reason: quote tag instead of spoiler tag

          Comment


            #6
            Up to phase 4 now and AT Qoga is a little bit better than I thought, it drags less than the two previous AT games despite a couple of places around the end of phase 3.
            Though battles are fun thanks to the new real-time system, I would have liked more enemy variety: there are only an handful of basic types from which developers changed textures and/or added polygonal detail, but they all perform the same attacks and in any given location a couple of battles will be enough to see every enemy said location boasts.
            Also, from halfway phase 2 and for all phase 3 battles are on the long side, with enemies having a lot of HPs and your characters only chipping their health with standard attacks; this is clearly thought to have the player use the Reyvateils' purge system and get the highest level magic possible.
            While battles last less than a minute on average (and the possibility to purge multiple layers at one time), the low enemy variety and their basic attack patterns make battles less enjoyable than they should be.
            At the same time enemy threat becomes low, even when against the (few) bosses. By playing more I noticed that the party is automatically healed by the Reyvateil's song and even without an healing up effect or the most protective armor, it's difficult that an enemy encounter will reduce a character's health so low in so little time to force the player use an item, relegating synthesis to a mere system to get conversation points to dive deeper into a Reyvateil's Cosmosphere.

            Cosmospheres are still good, though they are still almost completely linear and errors only kick you out of the Cosmosphere and deplete DPs, which can be regained through battles. Even so, errors are easy to avoid (

            like dating and kissing Finnel in Saki's Cosmosphere

            ) and the frequent battles grant more than enough DPs.
            Though I haven't completed a Cosmosphere yet and left Finnel's Cosmosphere largely untouched, I feel that they are weaker than all Cosmospheres found in the previous games.

            Some characters do stand out from the rest.
            struck my heart the moment she spoke and her lines only become better as the game goes on; the game

            hints that Tatsumi is a girl but...[spoiler inside the spoiler, read at your own risk]...hello Cocona! Your presence automatically make all games better.[end of spoiler inside the spoiler]


            Compared to them the two main female characters, following the tragic heroine cliche, feel plain,

            even with all the multiple persona shenanigans going on

            .

            Music is excellent and if I'm not mistaken there are more songs than simple BGMs, which is great. During battles the background theme changes according to the Hyuma and equipped items on the Reyvateil; a nice touch, though battle themes tend to get muted by sound effects.

            Comment


              #7
              Yay, my copy's shipped from Game. hopefully should get it tommorrow.

              Incidentally, Game have it for ?35 with OST, Game exclusive Artbook and triple reward points for a pre-order if you order it by the end of tomorrow.

              Comment


                #8
                Can we get this moved to first play now that it's out everywhere?

                Played for 90 minutes or so yesterday.

                Enjoying it quite a bit. Love the hand painted backdrops in towns, they look really nice in HD.

                Kept toying with Japanese voices vs English but ultimately I think I'm going to go with Japanese. The annoying thing is that battle voices aren't subtitled! (seriously why do so many games not subtitle battle voices?)

                Translation is head and shoulders above the one in 2. In the first 10 minutes I was finally told the point of the sync gauge! I went through AT2 not knowing what it was and how you increased your sync level.

                Battle system is quick and fun, if a little shallow. So far only irritation with it is that there's not enough feedback if your revateil is being attacked, you only tend to notice they're under attack when it's too late.

                Other than that it looks like more of the same but with a bit extra polish over the first two games (wish the characters actually looked like they were walking on the ground though, they always look like they're running in air), it's getting a few negativish reviews but a lot of those seem to focus on the fanservice and mark it down because they feel the game is 'beneath them'. Definately a very niche game but it's the kind of JRPG I've been thirsting for for a while.

                Comment


                  #9
                  And then the game started to crack the fourth wall.
                  [endgame spoilers ahead]

                  T:"Why would someone hide a treasure chest into the sewers?"
                  Cocona:"[bla bla bla] and besides you're not exactly jumping with joy when you open a chest, it's usally something you can buy in a normal shop"
                  T: "good reasoning, Cocona"
                  C: "I know, I'm awesome"
                  Tirya and Cocona, you should have your own game.



                  I think I'm near the end, I've completed Saki's Cosmosphere and there aren't any more big bad guys on the horizon, though there's the final hurdle to pass.
                  There's a difficulty spike before that, nothing too hard to overcome but forces the player to use some of the items that have been previously stockpiled. Even durng this phase, battles are very samey: build up meter, release special attack, done.

                  The biggest surprise came from the Tower central to Qoga's plot: it runs on two (moe-ized) mainframes based on MicroSoft operating system! And the Tirya says "Vista isn't as sociable as XP"...oh Tirya,

                  I'll start a new game just for you.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I've played a bit more of it, done the first levels of the cosmosphere now.

                    It's really irritating how if the reyvateil gets attacked, you've about 3 seconds to save her before she dies, especially as you get zero indicators when she is attacked (although it's hard to tell in general when anyone's taking damage). Can you actually use the block from anywhere or do you have to be in range? I thought you had to be in the circle but I used it inside a couple of times.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If the Reyvateil is attacked just press circle from anywhere, the vanguard you're currently using will perform the blow move. The in-game tutorial isn't particularly detailed about this, and it also fails to explain that you are always healed even when outside the Reyvateil's defense area: healing and special effects (stat boosts or poison) are administered automatically every five (I think) seconds, so if you purge with a attack up effect, said effect won't be instantaneous but you'll have to wait for the new "cycle". Opposite effects (defense and attack down to defense/attack up and viceversa) completely overwrite the existing ones.

                      The real problem is when an enemy will start a special move: such moves prevent the Reyvateil from purging until the enemy is disrupted (or successfully activate the move) and when multiple enemies are around the one performing the special attack the auto targeting always aim something else. The camera is way too close and rotating it with the right analog is slower than running around, but then again you have to get to the enemy and attack it until it breaks to stop the move.
                      Last edited by briareos_kerensky; 02-04-2011, 07:51.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I still think thant AT Qoga is a fine game, but it has crossed the line between long and dragged out.
                        The story is enjoyable but there are just too many battles. In the first dungeons the battle gauge depletes relatively fast and encounters are far from each other, while later dungeons have a long battle gauge and high encounter rate. It is a nice way to see all purge animations and flipspheres (if you spent enough time in each Reyvateil's Cosmosphere and your choice hadn't blocked deeper levels in them), but it's a very short and ephemereal goal as in the latest dungeon available it's easy to get the highest purge level during the first encounter...essentially everything can be saw in 10 encounters, the rest is just boredom, a mindless smashfest on the square button and pad shaking for getting at the required level to kill monsters in the fastest way possible.
                        All vanguards play the same and only their supermoves change, so there's no real point in focusing on using anyone else than Aoto.
                        I'm adamant if battles wouldn't have been so repetitive and constant, Phase 4 would have been much better due to a faster story progression.

                        Advancing the soty requires

                        to visit at least two levels (out of three) in Tyria's

                        Cosmosphere...it's soemthing I didn't wanted to because I was set on starting the game again and go for her true ending, but I doubt I'll just quit after completing the game due exclusively to battles.
                        Anyway,
                        Cosmosphere is how all other Cosmospheres should have been, semilinear experiences where your choices would tell if you could get out of the current level, instead of 90% linear text adventures of the two main heroines (I say 90% because I managed to miss something in Saki's Cosmosphere despite ending it).
                        The writing is by far the best of the three Cosmospheres and it's the only Cosmosphere that had me ask for what would come next, not a simple "let's unlock everything" as I did with Saki...but probably this also due to the fact that Saki and Finnel are uninteresting outside a few scenes...heck, even Mute comes off as a more interesting character, as she's a secondary-to-tertiary character!
                        Luca might have been a complete b*tch, but at least she was more interesting than Saki, and since I cannot seem to like Finnel in any way, I'd say that AT Qoga features the weakest heroines in the series, both Cosmosphere- and story- wise.

                        Unfortunately AT Qoga falls in the same error of all Gust games (Atelier, Ar Tonelico, Mana Khemia) and fails to deliver an interesting battle system from beginning to end and a good rhythm in a game's final hours.
                        Among Gust games, however AT Qoga is one of the best, at least for what came out from the PS2 games. It's weaker than the first Atelier Iris and the first Ar Tonelico, goes head to head with AT2 (talking about the games as a whole, not single elements/mechanics) and delivers much more than the others.
                        Last edited by briareos_kerensky; 02-04-2011, 16:18. Reason: forgot spoiler tags :P

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Just completed the game.
                          Loading the clear data lets players start at the very beginning, at the beginning of Phase 2 or at an other important story event with the same experience, money and dive points when the game was completed. Unfortunately no items or completed synthetis, but being able to skip directly to Phase 2 (where players can alter the final outcome of the story) cuts greatly playtime for future playthroughs and, well, killing enemies with one hit is always fun
                          The extra menu includes essentially everything that was unlocked: BGMs, battle voices, hymns, flipshere movies, purge movies, bestiary, syntethis sequences, talk topics...essentially everything. Of course there's an image gallery and by

                          defeating Akane three times

                          it's possible to get three extra images.
                          If you get the true ending

                          the girl you've ended up with will ask why you (Aoto) like her...Saki's choices were:
                          a. we can support each other
                          b. you have big boobs
                          c. you're a natural electricity generator
                          ...
                          ...
                          ...
                          you're a WHAT?

                          Oh well, I guess Aoto's passion for drills (TO PIERCE INTO THE HEAVENS! ... Ah-erhm) had to be conveyed till the very end.

                          I don't have much to add to what I've written before. The game is ejoyable but during the last hours it drags out a bit too much.
                          NISA localization is good, there are a couple of errors (spotted in Phase four) and sometimes brackets end on a new line by themselves, but it's undoubtely better than AT2.
                          There are some aspects of the battle system that aren't explained correctly but it's nothing vital...I guess that it's some sort of curse, NISA can't get an Ar Tonelico localization 100% right.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The battles are so much easier knowing that you can guard the reyvateil from anywhere. Still has the problem of not realising you're taking heavy damage and the reyvateils dying in seconds but it lowers the frustration element hugely. Done the first two cospmosphere for the two girls now. Suprised at how short they are. I know the early ones will be shorter but they still feel far shorter than the ones in AT2.

                            It's frustrating not being able to listen to the OST but I don't want to spoil the hymns.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              They get longer as you progress. Especially Finnel's.
                              I thought that I wouldn't have played the game a second time but in the end I started and planning to go Finnel's route

                              and then switch to Tyria

                              . Finnel's Cosmosphere is not that bad, funnier than Saki's;

                              her other personae are a bit more interesting too

                              . Can't really say I like Finnel as a character, probably I take pleasure in seeing her suffering as her Cosmosphere guardian.
                              I decided to start from the beginning just to see a couple of entertaining scenes once again:

                              I simply love when Saki starts to sing the DFP song.


                              Money and experience from the previous playthrough greatly help in getting the fun stuff early on (strong items and supermoves); the ability to skip dialogues already seen is excellent. Unfortunately I ended the game at level 80 with the best weapons available and the battles still dragged out, I hope I won't completely lose patience once in phase 4.

                              [edit] BTW, I strongly recommend to grab the Hymn concert discs, I'd say that they are the best among all AT games.
                              Last edited by briareos_kerensky; 04-04-2011, 09:51.

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