Smashing through social barriers and stereotypes

[Ady]

Bitches leave.

This is also having to assume that any of us have anything in common other than games. As far as I can see, that appears to be the only thing we have in common.

Have you ever been to any of the meets and hung out with other regs? And whose to say fellow enthusiasts of other hobbies have more than that one hobby in common?

Persoanlly, I think it's great that you can have these little virtual communities in cyberspace. That you can come to a place like this with other like-minded people and just chat about the things you all love (ie games). There's even Off-Topic folders where you can chill and just get to know people.

I have an active RL social life, but really like the fact that I can come here pretty much do the same thing online.

I'm still struggling to see why you seem so intent on doing yourself (and other gamers) down.

[nips]

I think one of the most clear things that we have in common is that we're all (90%+) male... Just look at the films thread and the OT and you'll see, we generally have a lot in common.

If you guys fancy a meet, then I'm there...

[mrfrosty]

Whoa, I take it back. I haven't been to one of the meets, cos i've only just joined the site. As far as I know, that's pretty much all we have in common, but I don't know anyone here, and I jumped to conclusions, like most people do, causing this problem in the first place. This is a large and diverse group of people, so I'm guessing many of you have hobbies in common, but that's going to be true of ANY large group of people. It's just that this group has a commonality which causes you to be socially segregated and classed as Nerds. I should have made my meaning clearer... Apologies..

[mrfrosty]

And only geeks would have a forum discussion to debate if we're geeks or not.... ;-)

[mrfrosty]

I'm still struggling to see why you seem so intent on doing yourself (and other gamers) down.

Really? I did that? When? I couldn't care less what people think of me, and I certainly don't put myself down because of it...

[Ady]

It's all your "We're all such sad, pathetic geeks because the average person doesn't understand our hobby. Woe is us!" talk.

See above.

[mrfrosty]

Er, that's not quite the message I'm trying to convey... But I see why you think so. I think either extreme is wrong... Thinking bad about yourself cos people don't understand, and thus dislike what you do, or thinking yourself supreme because you know something someone else doesn't... Most of the people I've met on here just don't seem to care very much, and they seem well rounded and happy. I don't understand why we get the stick for it.,

[Ady]

I don't understand why we get the stick for it.,

Precisely my point, good sir.

At the end of the day, it's just a hobby, a pastime not a million miles away from girlfriends and housewives who love their soaps (for example).

It's all relative, too. Personally, I think going crazy over celebrity gossip magazines and discussing the latest Coronation Street storylines by the proverbial "water cooler" pretty sad. People into all that may feel the same way about gaming...

[IcePak]

It's all relative, too. Personally, I think going crazy over celebrity gossip magazines and discussing the latest Coronation Street storylines by the proverbial "water cooler" pretty sad. People into all that may feel the same way about gaming...

Very well said, and I can't agree more. The saying that goes something like "one man's fun is another's hell" applies here. Some people enjoy a particular hobby (like gaming) whilst other people can't stand it, but enjoy something that the gamer dislikes (like celebrity gossip). As long as each person is enjoying their hobbies and interests, what does it matter what other people think?

I know it's annoying that some people degrade other people because of their interests, but these are the people who should be considered sad, because if they have to give other people **** about their interests, then they are obviously missing something from their lives. Ignore those people and let them be, whilst you enjoy your hobbies.


People degrading other people for their particular interests could be doing this as a plea for help - that they have nothing interesting in their lives, and see that you do, so perhaps they want you to explain what's so good about your hobby so they might be able to have something that they might enjoy.

[Concept]

I know you're talking about hobbies or interests, but the heart of the matter here for me is the broad definition with which I personally have found ordinarily intelligent people to dismiss videogaming. I've spoken amongst people before who hold extremely open views on film, music and literature, but when it comes gaming they automatically resort to daily mail/daily star clich?s. If the medium isn't trying to breed psycho killers through overtly violent content, then they believe it to be another trend or youth culture fad that's the hot topic of the moment without merit. It's amusing, because some, although knowing next to nothing about videogames, fall back on reasoning and opinions that need knowledge to carry any weight. Yet they're still flung around to be taken seriously.

I remember a programme on BBC2 a while back, centred around middle aged men moaning at the state of the world. Then it got to Will Self, and he was bitching on about the decadence of culture, immediately referencing PlayStation and reality TV as examples of the intellectually deficient culture we're faced with. I get enough disapproval and snide remarks about the worth of videogaming from my own family, without being overly enthusiastic when self-imposed pseudo-intellectuals use a medium I hold respect for as another example of the ills present in modern day culture. People who don't understand, who aren't aware or particularly interested in videogaming... When they comment on it, I'm sorry; I just can't take them seriously.

Another example was when Vice City first launched during a report on BBC Breakfast... I remember the female presenter after a clip of people playing the game saying something along the lines of: "Don't they have anything constructive to do, like reading a good book?"

Now, those kinds of remarks tend to rub me up the wrong way, because in one fell generalistic swoop, you're writing off a medium with over 30 years of history in comparison to another medium which has a vastly different approach and history. Do you think the BBC would allow one if its presenters to say the same about film, theatre or pop music?

No, because even the ****tiest of the ****tiest of mainstream entertainment culture is currently regarded higher than videogaming.

The difference I feel in comparing interest with videogaming to celebrity gossip and soap news is the fact that those latter two aspects are elements within two existing mediums. For example, soap operas are part of television, and celebrity gossip magazines are a part of written journalism.

What annoys me with some people are those who dismiss videogaming in its entirety, presuming guns, gore and tits are representative of every single title out there. So for example, while I admittedly look on with scorn for the likes of Big Brother, EastEnders and Heat magazine, I don't automatically dismiss or view them as representative of the mediums processing their content.

I don't think the same can be said for videogames. When I've talked to people who dismiss them, they've previously done so not only through just a small selection of genre or niches, but through everything the entire media happens to hold.

[Daniel]

Good post, and it's true that videogaming has a long way to go before getting the respectability that music, television, journalism and film get by default, even though 99% of the **** they pump out is far more deplorable than the likes of gta. And i do love it when some moralizing tv presenter says, "Why don't they do something worthwhile like read a book." They never say, "Why don't they do something worthwhile like watch tv."

[Concept]

I agree we're looking at a long time (from the current point of view) as to when videogames are culturally accepted in the way other mediums are seen. Personally, I feel there are games already out that deserve the attention and respect other works enjoy. It doesn't bother or worry me to cite some of the greats if I have to explain why I enjoy games to others, because I believe there are special titles already presently released. In that regard, I feel we shouldn't be afraid in blowing our own trumpet when it comes to showing others what videogames (may or are) capable of.

However, that doesn't excuse there are vast parts of videogaming that're immature and evidently flawed, although we shouldn't necessarily even feel the need to seek social or cultural validation... That almost suggests (and wrongly) in my view insecurity and lack of confidence in the medium itself.

As much as I'm loathe to draw comparison, let's take the Chronicles of Riddick film in contrast with the game. It's an immediate and recent example to draw upon.

Now, even though the movie has been critically slaughtered, I bet you it's still seen in higher regard than the interactive spin-off. And you probably know why?

a) It's a Videogame
b) It has 'shooting' in
c) It has the added title: Escape From Butcher Bay

[mrfrosty]

However, that doesn't excuse there are vast parts of videogaming that're immature and evidently flawed, although we shouldn't necessarily even feel the need to seek social or cultural validation... That almost suggests (and wrongly) in my view insecurity and lack of confidence in the medium itself.

This is my point earlier. Why the hell should we expect vindication to enjoy what we enjoy? We're not killing kids, raping people or blowing up banks, so what's the damned problem? Who cares if it's socially acceptable? Half the stuff these acceptable people enjoy aren't exactly vibrant and exciting pastimes (BB, Celeb gossip, as already mentioned...) I know I should try to remain objective and not feel disdain for them, but my God, it's hard...
But you have to love the government initiatives over the years to get people off their asses and out exercising... I think everyone would have to agree that TV is a much bigger problem than gaming...

[Ady]

IThe difference I feel in comparing interest with videogaming to celebrity gossip and soap news is the fact that those latter two aspects are elements within two existing mediums. For example, soap operas are part of television, and celebrity gossip magazines are a part of written journalism.

True, but the reason I used those is because of the parallels they share with gaming.

Gamers are often accused of regarding their hobby as a form of "escaping the real world" or (as mentioned earlier in this thread), a means of substituting something they apparently lack (that gamers may simply enjoy gaming and just want to ::gasp:: have fun is apparently lost on some).

In my mind, the same could be said of soap and celeb gossip heads, but I'm pragmatic enough to realise that most of these people simply just see it as light entertainment.

What annoys me with some people are those who dismiss videogaming in its entirety, presuming guns, gore and tits are representative of every single title out there. So for example, while I admittedly look on with scorn for the likes of Big Brother, EastEnders and Heat magazine, I don't automatically dismiss or view them as representative of the mediums processing their content.

It's funny you should mention that because yet again, there are parallels.

People are quick to question the morality of gaming (as per your points above), but nothing is ever said of soaps and the like.

Whenever I've seen a soap of any kind, all I see is constant bickering, slanging matches, fighting, infidelity, violence and the like. Now, I'm no saint, I'm not trying to say what's right or wrong here, but it truly surprises me that people are quick to criticize games for a bit of gore, whilst immersing themselves in entertainment that seems entirely steeped in negativity.

Again, it's not a matter of morality or right and wrong, it's more a matter of the kettle calling the pot black.

[Alf-Life]

Thing is, though, you can't blame ignorant parents when their kids sit inside all day playing these games, I guess my parents must have the exact same view.

In fact, one person I talked to (who's in his 50s) said he regards games as a 'black hole for time' because he gets drawn in (I'm assuming he's talking about minesweeper and solitaire :P) and loses hours of time. I can indeed see what he means; lately I've preferred to put on a DVD or go to the cinema because I know it's 2 hours gone, but that's it, whereas with games four hours can go by in the blink of an eye. And with longer action adventures, RTSs or RPGs I know in advance how much time they'll take.

However, this is why I love Rockstar. GTA is not only a great videogame, but one with potential to reach a wider audience since the mainstream can instantly relate to the 'real world' (as oppose to eating mushrooms to grow) and with a distinct air of 'cool' about it.
And watching MTV Cribs once in a while, gangster rappers seem unashamed of their PS2s; it's just a shame most only have EA sports sims (although I'm *suuure* I saw one who had Viewtiful Joe! :O ).

As I said before, I don't think gaming per se is seen as that bad if you've played GTA or an EA title, but to go any further makes you, in my personal experience, look either sad ("geek") or childish ("our kids are always playing those silly games").

Then again, I guess it depends on who you talk to... not everyone holds this opinion, I'd say System Administrators surely get more flak. :P

Having said that... I'm reminded of the typical 'massmarket' (if you will) reaction to, say, BB's John Tickle (although he was a bit of an idiot), or to fans of Star Trek or Dungeons N Dragons.

PS. Since some people mention BB, Eastenders and Heat, maybe gaming will get more 'exciting' to the mainstream when either Hollywood actors can become better represented in games, or when the game makers become superstars themselves... though somehow I doubt it. The one thing music, film and TV have over gaming is the 'real person' aspect which means that these 'dumb' mags like Heat can sell issues just by discussing who's had a boob job, or which Hollywood star was 'caught' with sweat patches under her arms. Sigh. :/