Screwing it up

[mrfrosty]

I misunderstood. Sorry, but I just found the mother/father of all house spiders in my office and have just run screaming and wailing out the door. My thoughts are not coherent as a result..
As to your comment about trigger happy, I must admit to guilt of that. If possible, I save it before entering sinister looking areas (which is almost all of Resi) but I'm really big on restarting from previous points, no matter how far back, and doing it again better. People who watch me play get really pissed off.
I think unless you're fighting more than two zombies in Res, you can easily dodge passed them, so you can be extremely conservative with the ammo. Of course, this is essential on the higher difficulties, and it just means lots of annoying dodging when backtracking...
And finally, have too much ammo and the game would be a breeze...

[Ady]

As before, I know conservatism is possible, but my point is that the unintiated are not to know this, so to scold them for not knowing it is very unfair. A better designed game would still allow the player to somehow continue - even without ammo.

That's what I liked about the Silent Hill games. Even if you did run out of bullets (which in itself required some effort), you could still use the melee weapons with some reasonable degree of competence. So, you were never forced to restart the game or repeat huge chunks of it.

This doesn't necessarily make the games easier either, only fairer...

Judicial ammo conservation or not, I can't see how punishing the player for not being able to predict the future (as I've said elsewhere before in a similar topic) is good game design. It's the same flaw that's spoilt many of the games listed by other posters in this thread too, and an anachronistic design flaw Capcom had no business making fashionable again (see Project Zero and other survival horror games that rely on it).

[mrfrosty]

Okay, I concede the point. It IS unfair to view these from a perspective of someone who knows what they're doing (or not, in my case and most of the time!).
What other games beyond Resi prove your point? None are springing to my mind, although I'm sure they are there.

[Ady]

Like I said a few posts back, it was something that used to happen in old Click and Point games a lot (someone already mentioned King's Quest, for one).

I remember an old game called Future Wars biting me on the arse that way, too. Failed to retreive an important item earlier, and became unstuck later. Had to restart.

[mrfrosty]

That's just really poor game design. Nothing should halt you like that. You can be penalised for doing it, sure, but not have to restart. I'd have a fit if that happened to me.. Even having to backtrack more than fifteen minutes pisses me off

[Magnakai]

Possibly the worst one was in King's Quest 6.
You start off on a beach, and on the NEXT SCREEN, you have the opportunity to go to the castle or to go to a town. On my first playthrough I decided to go to the town, and wander around there a bit before going to the castle.
Quite a bit later, I got horribly stuck, because an event just wouldn't transpire the way I wanted it to.
Later, I found out that you had to go to the castle first, and only then could you go to the town and enter the bookshop without it messing up.
Most unfair...

King's Quest 5 had a problem where you had to trade a gold coin for a pie, a gold needle for a cloak, and a golden harp would be used in a puzzle. The problem was, the first two people would accept the harp as payment. Whilst this was realistic, it screwed up the game for anyone that unfortunate. Luckily, I never made that mistake until I was replaying it.

It's interesting to note that the Quest For Glory games were possibly the only Sierra adventure series where this didn't happen. Police Quest may be exempt too, though I doubt it.

Hehe, while we're on the subject of King's Quest 5, did you know it was released for the NES?

http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/nes/01/kingsquest5.html

Not quite the lush graphics of the PC version...

[Paleface]

Resident Evil 2. Leon, Scenario A. I'm enjoying this game a pheonemenal amount - picked it up on budget on PC, and it's just fabulous. Great atmosphere, great fun.

I get to the near-end of the scenario. Me versus Birkin. I defeat his penultimate form and he turns into the dog-thing. I have one shotgun shell and four magnum rounds left. I fire them at him. He's still alive.

He eats me.

I gave up. I decided that, in my world, Leon Kennedy died and nobody was saved. Hell, I never even got to Scenario 2. Might go back when I get the Gamecube version and a Gamecube; I loved it, but couldn't bring myself to go back and be MORE cautious and conservative. I thought I was doing OK for ammo, but probably screwed up the lab and subsequently the final fight.

[Ady]

I hear there's a nasty bug in Broken Sword on the GBA that forces a restart.

It's a shame. It's completely put me off buying the game.

[csuzw]

I hear there's a nasty bug in Broken Sword on the GBA that forces a restart.

It's a shame. It's completely put me off buying the game.

I heard about that too. There is a way round it though so if you are aware of it then it shouldn't be a problem. If I ever see this cheap I think I'll pick it up as I've heard good things about it other than the bug.

[112]

is broken sword on the GBA all in speach? or is it text based? Dont really wanna be reading off a small screen for hours on end! uh uh.........

112

[lostn]

Kings Quest 5, I got horribly stuck near the end.

In them days there was no Internet game faq sites so it was after months of brain wracking that I found out that very near the begging of the game when a rat had run across a path in the forest, I should have clicked it. It only ever did its little run once.

That has to be one of the most hideous design flaws ever.

Dead ends. This kind of thing used to happen a lot in Sierra adventure games. Plus you'd die a lot without warning.

Later they realized the design was not good and changed things. You still die a lot, but you get to "Try again" without having saved the game. And no more dead ends where you are stuck because you did something wrong without warning, or failed to do something.

Possibly the worst one was in King's Quest 6.
You start off on a beach, and on the NEXT SCREEN, you have the opportunity to go to the castle or to go to a town. On my first playthrough I decided to go to the town, and wander around there a bit before going to the castle.
Quite a bit later, I got horribly stuck, because an event just wouldn't transpire the way I wanted it to.
Later, I found out that you had to go to the castle first, and only then could you go to the town and enter the bookshop without it messing up.
Most unfair...

While KQ6 had its share of problems, I don't recall you being able to get stuck permanently. You should be able to go back to the castle and then re-enter the bookshop. It might have affected Jollo and a few things later, but you can still beat it. The bad puzzle was the Stick in the Mud one. You could throw a tomato at it and miss, losing the tomato, which means you won't be able to cast any spells and will die at the Druid's place. But you can still beat the game entering the castle the alternate way, which is via the damsel's clothes. Still bad design, but a step up from KQ5.

King's Quest 5 had a problem where you had to trade a gold coin for a pie, a gold needle for a cloak, and a golden harp would be used in a puzzle. The problem was, the first two people would accept the harp as payment. Whilst this was realistic, it screwed up the game for anyone that unfortunate. Luckily, I never made that mistake until I was replaying it.

There's more. I believe you also get a silver coin which you buy something with but they will also accept the Gold Coin, which you needed for something else. The pie you get, you don't actually use for a long time, by which it would have rotten. If you eat it you're screwed later. It's only logical to eat it. There is a part later on when you get hungry and eating the pie will actually cure your hunger. However, what you're supposed to anticipate as a gamer is that you will be using the pie as a weapon to throw at some yeti who then falls off a cliff, rather than as food... now that's illogical. You're meant to see this well in advance.

There's also a place where you need to use the rope against some outcroppings. One of the points looked perfectly feasible, but if you used that point you'll die because it will break off. Once you've hooked it, there's no undoing it.

Conclusion: Save often, under new games.

[JU!]

I have had the same sort of problem with Onimusha 2, i did not trade enough in the game so did not have enough health to beat the final boss. The game locked me at the end with no way back to the market to trade items and speak to people as a result i deleted the save. N now after completing Onimusha 3 i still have not tried Onimusha 2 for about a year. Why trap someone at the end of a game?