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**Commander Marklar** · 27-09-2004, 08:45

In short he pretty much didn?t get it.

Problem solved, that's the reviewers problem not yours. I wouldn't let it spoil your opinion of the game, or go on some fanboy rant

**Concept** · 27-09-2004, 08:49

I read the review too, and whilst I believe it to be woefully uninformed, the piece was only a person's opinion. And I doubt the type of audience who generally read the Sunday Times' supplement Culture will be those who are really going to enjoy the game for what it is.

Just take a look at the CD which comes with the paper and the list of games on it to understand the influences behind some of the review opinions/scores. I remember they gave a distinctly suspect score to Driver 3 if I recall correctly.

But coming back on issue to the current set... I also thought Steven Poole's review of Silent Hill 4 (which I disagreed with) was either horribly edited to pieces, or rather light on opinion. It mostly appeared as a bunch of bulletpoints pasted together.

**JibberX** · 27-09-2004, 08:49

Ahh c'mon, the guy didn't get it. That's fair enough, I'd be interested to hear what other mighty pearls of wisdom were contained in the Sunday Times games section?

**Madbury** · 27-09-2004, 08:53

Well how about full marks for SIMS2. Perhaps it is that good I don't know I haven't played it.

C'mon guys I've never been shy about wearing my love for Sega on my sleave. Yes I'm a fanboy and proud of it. I suppose I was just expecting a more cultured approach from the Sunday Times. Plus their review of the history of video games many months back wasn't all that bad iirc.

**JibberX** · 27-09-2004, 08:56

Sims 2, yes that's a fantastic game... everything I want from a computer gaming experience, it's not for voyeristic freaks at all no... and the camera isn't ****onga or anything.

Hey Trev, did you know that Sega spelt backwards is Ages, pretty cool huh!?

**Concept** · 27-09-2004, 09:00

Originally posted by Trevor Bradbury

Well how about full marks for SIMS2. Perhaps it is that good I don't know I haven't played it.

C'mon guys I've never been shy about wearing my love for Sega on my sleave. Yes I'm a fanboy and proud of it. I suppose I was just expecting a more cultured approach from the Sunday Times. Plus their review of the history of video games many months back wasn't all that bad iirc.

It depends who usually reviews in my opinion. When Poole isn't edited to pieces, then usually his review ends up being the focused game.

And yes, considering the contents elsewhere in the literary and theatre sections, you would hope for something slightly more on top of what gaming is all about really. If you're naive to gaming, then you'll only come away with a stereotypical view of what you expect it to offer reading that magazine. But as I said, and without wanting to start conspiracy theories...

Certain interests are bound to help fund development of the monthly CD, and no doubt promise further advertising inside the magazines and papers if they get favourable coverage. Hence you get footage and reviews focused on high-chart flyers, regardless of quality.

This is why the gaming section tends to lag behind the other elements of that particular magazine, at least in my view.

**Pistol** · 27-09-2004, 09:24

The Times is bum for games. Games get what you'd expect the casual gamer to give them, they're not proper in-depth reviews. Might as well read Loaded or FHM for your game reviews as the Times.

**Madbury** · 27-09-2004, 09:27

Yeah knowing someone on the inside, I'm sure this sort of stuff goes on. Infact I gave that certain someone a list of companies the ST should be dealing with to get a much broader take on gaming, including Capcom, Sega, Nintendo, Namco etc.

What I find ridiculous is this idea that some people are wired up differently. Games like Katamari Damashii and Super Monkey Ball prove to me at least, that superb fun gameplay can be enjoyed by all, regardless of their gaming preference.

What I want from my mainstream games reviews is something more along the lines of the film reviews, where foreign language films and arthouse pieces are given a fair crack of the whip. Many times I'll read a review of a film I've not heard of previously and think to myself I must keep an eye out for that at the cinema or when its out on DVD. It just seems that any game without guns, blood and crashing cars is automatically dismissed, purely because we all know it won't sell well.

**JibberX** · 27-09-2004, 10:02

So what you are saying Trev, is that "people" tend to equate a certain styled game to a certain popularity. Because this industry is so young I think it suffers loads from peer pressure, kind of like playground politics, for some mystical reason its "dangerous" to acclaim OutRun2 as the greatest thing ever, because, possibly it takes more than 18 seconds to appreciate its nuances.

If for instance the Sunday Time decided to deride Sims2 because its a game design for control freaks, voyeristic wierdos and women, and give that 1 star, I doubt many people would be happy with that. Had the Sunday Times exlaimed OutRun2 as the gaming equivilent of Sheffield Wedneday winning the Champions League, (very good) with a multi page article explaining it all, I think people would be interested.

See I think its a lack of confidence on the side of the journalists to portray the wonderment of such games, like, Virtua Fighter, Psyvair etc etc. Or because they are ignorant buffons who don't know what the hell they are talking about. Bit like me being a restaurant critic, if it turns up, its hot and it doesn't make me vomit, it gets 5 stars.

**S0L** · 27-09-2004, 10:21

I read that review, I can sum up my feelings for it as quite simply 'meh'. I like how Dan Emery gave Codename Panzers: Phase One, 4 out of 5 previously, now that is arguably a more 'niche' game, given 5 minutes research on this reviewer, it seems he reviews a lot of similar titles too. Wargamer playing Console games? No wonder we got the equivelent of 20%.

I'm sure if we had pedestrians being run over we might have attracted some more attention...

Nuff said.

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Sol
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**marcus** · 27-09-2004, 10:37

It would be an interesting test for me to ask a writer to play a game for a total of 5 minutes and see how well they cope with writing a review of it based on that. Im sure that, like the one mentioned here, a reviewer can come up with something based on little more play than that. It must be gutting as a developer to see a game slammed when its as misguided and plain wrong as this.

**charlaph** · 27-09-2004, 10:43

Not sure whether this link will work, as it's a section of the Times online that you're meant to register for, but here goes: reviews

EDIT - nah, didn't work. Here's the transcript

Outrun 2
Xbox, ?39.99; all ages

You get the impression that Outrun 2 would be more at home in a coin-op than on a console. With its limited gameplay, a small number of licensed cars and repetitive soundtrack, it won?t keep you hooked for hours. Given the recent glut of ultra-realistic driving games, a simple arcade-racer such as this should be a breath of fresh air. However, there is a fine line between simple and dumbed-down, and Outrun strays into the latter. When you are not trying to beat the clock, you?re aiming to impress the girlfriend, who comes out with such handy hints as ?Overtake? and ?Let?s drift?. It?s all rather shallow. That?s not to say the game doesn?t look good ? the vehicles are highly polished and the landscape is varied ? but for ?40 you expect a little more variety and absorption. One star

Daniel Emery

**Bleeders** · 27-09-2004, 10:49

I take it the reviewer never even bothered to venture into Mission Mode then?

**charlaph** · 27-09-2004, 10:57

I'm betting the first two missions are 'overtake' and 'drift'

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Outrageous Outrun 2 review

Outrageous Outrun 2 review

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