"Videogames are shallow"

[PeteJ]

Of course, as mentioned above, if a game plays crap then nothing else can stop it from being crap. A good example, in my opinion, is Zone of Enders 2. Lovely style and production values cannot hide the flaws in gameplay, and the initial "ooh" is soon replaced with swearing and general throwing of pad.

A good character isn't needed in al games, obviously, but it helps. Just look at Devil May Cry Dante next to Devil May Cry 2 Dante. Worlds apart!

[mid]

Lanning has said it in a slightly dumb way, but his underlying point is largely correct. Videogame stories usually are shallow in comparison to even the trashier end of the airport novel or Bruckheimer film. Biffo was right when he described his attempts to craft a story that didn't get in the way of the gameplay, but he's the exception.

Most videogame plots are (A) ****e, but (B) shoved down our throats anyway. I don't care that R-Type's plot is rubbish, because it doesn't even matter. But if games insist on showing me cutscenes, I want to be rewarded with something more than just the next feeble excuse for why a bunch of guys need shooting before they shoot me back.

[Ady]

I agree there is a lot of room for improvement as far as game stories go (I said that somewhere in the first post), but Lanning appeared to be implying that gaming as a medium lacked depth because of this, which -as you say- is dumb.

It also hadn't occured to him that some games really don't need any kind of plot at all.

As the whole industry appears to be going film-crazy though, it's likely we won't be seeing many of those type of games for much longer anyway.

[Pacman555]

Lorne Lanning is the creator of the Oddworld games. He's a man, and he's got long hair, and he thinks all his games are wonderful. His aim is to make Abe an iconic character similar to Yoda or Mickey Mouse. He also comes across as ludicrously arrogant and conceited.

I've just gleaned that knowledge from magazine interviews etc.

Personally, I agree with Molloy. When you go to see a film, you don't want to be in control, you want to be taken on a journey that you'll enjoy, you don't want to interact with the world displayed to you. When you play a game, you do exactly that; play. Games are there for you to toy with the creation of the developers and shape your own enjoyment out of their guidelines and inventions.

A storyline can enhance this enjoyment, but, as displayed by Metal Gear Solid 2 (which was still a game I enjoyed hugely), the plot should be second to the gameplay, and if it does exist at all, integral to it. Therefore, by your actions in the game (e.g. the completing of objectives etc.) you should see some effect in the cutscenes.

What I reckon anyway.

[Ady]

I just suddenly remembered a primarily story-driven game I did actually enjoy; Shadow of Memories. There was plenty to do gameplay-wise, but -like MGS2- it did have lots of lengthy cutscenes and the story appeared to be a big part of the game.

However, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, I didn't mind any of that at all with this particular game (though having to watch lengthy cutscenes a second or third time after suddenly dropping dead on the spot did grate enormously). It certainly felt more like an interactive storybook than a game, but I suppose something like this isn't too bad as an occasional, lightweight novelty. The gaming equivalent of decaffeinated coffee, if you will.

[Pacman555]

Yeah, I remember that game! I loved it, I thought it was brilliant personally. Though I do think that reason it worked so well was because the gameplay was so dependant on the storyline for its existence, whereas so often in many games the plot is simply a tacked-on afterthought.

[jassi singh]

Final Fantasy X's Story made me play that game to completion because the story and characters were so ace...imo. I found it even more astonishing that the story\characterisation* wanted me to trudge through hours and hours of random battling and lvling up...which i absolutly loath.

Wakka is just too cool...and LuLu has somthing about her...and the relationship between Luna and Tidus forming was depicted beutifully. Just remembering back to all the different cast memebers...wow, they were exellent.

Auron
Kamari
Rikku
Jecht
Seamore
Sid

When you actually care about the cast members, that just shows how much the story has gripped you. Although FFX was my first FF game i played to completion, not many other games as PeteJ mentions has fully fleshed out characters.

Im rambling...just got beaten by Ginza at pro evo 4...i might have made sense above...doubt it.

/me collaspes

[Spatial]

...and LuLu has somthing about her...

Admit it, its the massive knockers isn't it ?

[jassi singh]

yes, great big digital jabberclackers.

/me reads topic

ah...

Ive killed the thread havnt I...****.

[Molloy]

I guess the point I was trying to make earlier is that games can have stories but they need to tell them in a totally different way from movies.

In many ways developers were better at creating characters 10 or 15 years ago than they are now. Look at the cast of Street Fighter 2. Each fighter has his own animations, stage setting and music. These things tell you far more about them than a cutscene ever could and in a far less obtrusive manner.

Ico is one of the few games recently that I think really nailed the storytelling aspect of games. There was hardly any dialogue and the fact that much of it was unintelligible was genius. I imagined Yorda was saying all sorts of meaningful things. What the characters actually said when I replayed with the translation was far less interesting.

Or if you take Sonic 1 versus Sonic Adventure. How do the cutscenes in the more modern title add to the game universe? The fact is they actually detract from it. Maybe the problem is characters in games now are too developed. It was more fun when you filled in the blanks yourself.

[Pikman]

Videogames in my opinion are very shallow, I've actually thought this for a number of years but it doesn't stop me playing or enjoying them.

To be honest I don't think computer code will simulate any real depth for years.